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Thread: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Boo Hoo, poor me. You make more than me, and I want it, but am unwilling to do the hard work, or take the risk you took to get it. I'm entitled to what you made in the form of redistribution. So give me what I think I am due you greedhead....


    See how that works? Go make your own.
    That sounds funny coming from a Teamster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Then why are you OK with 10%? Either you honor what your ELECTED officials do - or you don't.

    Despite Obama's compulsion to create new [programs, there isn't ANYTHING new being don that hasn't been done for years now. So, apparently all this is constitutional or SCOTUS would have banned it by now. Heck, I've seen claims that TAXES aren't constitutional but along with death, they seem to be widespread.

    I thought I offered you a good deal at 40% (I had considered 75% but I didn't want to upset anyone). Make it 35% and we have a del?
    If the choice is honor what elected officials do, or dont. Then I choose dont. It is pretty obvious by now that the Supreme Court, and govt in general can be wrong and abusive. Saying that anything they do must be legal because no one has said otherwise yet is a recipe for disaster.

    So if we accept that there is no power in the constitution for the govt to run either a medical insurance program, retirement insurance, nutrition assistance, education loans, or own a auto company, then once you strip the functions of govt down to what is actually in the constitution, the federal cost is significantly lower. If you then further accept that every citizen who is able to pay for these services should at the very least contribute the same share of what they are able to (flat tax), that number is probably 10% or less.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by ChunkySalsa View Post
    Boo hoo, poor me. I only own 90% of everything, but the big bad government is forcing me to pay an unfair 40% of all taxes! I'm entitled to tax cuts. Gimmie them you parasites.
    I agree.

  4. #74
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We must not just accept the propaganda, and rhetoric that is dominating the conversation today.
    No you should not accept propaganda... you should strive to understand the facts. The facts you reveal here are no secret, nor are they contrary to any talking point. Yes, the income tax structure, as it stands today, taxes labor (wages) at up to 2.5 times what it taxes capital (interest, dividends and capital gains). There are not many people with wages in excess of $1M, but there are some. Allowing the 2001/2003 tax cuts to finally expire on the highest income earners will tax high earners, many of whom are also rich, but not the rich, who derive much of their income capital. Frankly, they should also be discussing a second tier of taxation on interest, dividends and cap gains, or simply raise the rates of taxing of capital, but provide an exemption on the first X of income of each....


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is reported that the increase we have been hearing Obama repeat since Jan 20th, 2009 about "fair share" and "taxing families over $250K per year" would be around $80 billion. That is a drop in the bucket in terms of doing anything concerning Obama's run away spending vision. So what gives? Is this just a 'get even' measure? though up by progressives that are jealous that they didn't become successful? or is it a pillar of communism?
    $80B is hardly a drop in the bucket. It represents about 1/10 of the problem. What other single activity you could possibly do that would solve 1/10 of the problem with minimal consequence? It is a key PART of the solution. Those that can not accept that are not really serious about the budget deficit, they are just masking their distain of US social programs.... I remember arguing with people that touted the cut off of funding for NPR, which saved the government $25M, as some type of heroic cost saving event... that was trivial; allowing incremental tax rates to go back to 39.6% is substantive (when the should go to 45 to 50%)

    You are correct; you need to step away from the propaganda. The idea that you don't consider the tax increase a viable option because it does not solve 100% of the problem is a very weak argument from your friends at Fox; as is the idea this is something to do with class. You can increase taxes on the highest earners because that move will have the least impact on the economy as only a small part of their income works its way into the demand curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Communist Manifesto 10 Planks

    It is a sad time in history we are seeing here folks, hopefully we can endure, and fix what this progressive shift to the planks of Marx is attempting.
    This certainly does not help your credibility as a serious debater.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why should capital gains be taxed at all? Hasn't the money being invested already been taxed at the normal rates?

    Who owns my labor?
    Because it's income? All income is taxed. For some reason all income isn't treated equally. If your money makes you money....you pay less than if your labor makes you money.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Shouldn't we tax capital gains more since they're not working for it? Shouldn't we be rewarding hard work?
    We should "reward" hard work in general. However, we shouldn't reward *only* hard work, we shouldn't punish intelligent work, and we shouldn't ignore risk and scope. Not to mention "hard work" is a nebulous idea that has no real honest definition that can be used as an accurate measuring tool. My 6 months working in baggage at TSA felt like "harder" work than the time I spent in the Computer Networking field...and yet I'd absolutely suggest somehow the former needs to be "rewarded" because it's "harder" comparitive to the latter. The level of knowledge, expertise, critical thought involved, and scope for the latter were all far greater despite the work itself perhaps not being as "hard".

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We should "reward" hard work in general. However, we shouldn't reward *only* hard work, we shouldn't punish intelligent work, and we shouldn't ignore risk and scope. Not to mention "hard work" is a nebulous idea that has no real honest definition that can be used as an accurate measuring tool. My 6 months working in baggage at TSA felt like "harder" work than the time I spent in the Computer Networking field...and yet I'd absolutely suggest somehow the former needs to be "rewarded" because it's "harder" comparitive to the latter. The level of knowledge, expertise, critical thought involved, and scope for the latter were all far greater despite the work itself perhaps not being as "hard".
    Intellectually challenging work is still hard, sometimes even harder than physical labor. I just think that working should be rewarded over investing. That's part of what got us the collapse of 2008 - our tax system and government reward producing numbers on a piece of paper more than actually making something or providing a service.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    From CNBC today
    What Buffett Is Missing in His Tax Plan - Yahoo! Finance

    Intriguing what the media has not said in the past about effective tax rates. We all heard the middle class was getting soaked while the rich were dancing with the lowest rates - oops.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We must not just accept the propaganda, and rhetoric that is dominating the conversation today.



    It is reported that the increase we have been hearing Obama repeat since Jan 20th, 2009 about "fair share" and "taxing families over $250K per year" would be around $80 billion. That is a drop in the bucket in terms of doing anything concerning Obama's run away spending vision. So what gives? Is this just a 'get even' measure? though up by progressives that are jealous that they didn't become successful? or is it a pillar of communism?

    Communist Manifesto 10 Planks

    It is a sad time in history we are seeing here folks, hopefully we can endure, and fix what this progressive shift to the planks of Marx is attempting.
    This is why I refer to the rich ain't paying their fair share crowd as the Green with Envy crowd.It doesn't have squat to do with paying off debts. If the federal government was that worried about paying off our debt then they would be cutting spending left and right. This is why I believe that the government is intentionally driving us into debt.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Here's a perfect example of what the right is always talking about - our system and government do not reward work. What you're basically advocating is for people to sit on their ass and live off of their investments tax free. The government should incentivize hard work for the poor, but not if you're rich?
    You've failed in your argument.
    First, government is not taking from others, and handing it to the rich therefore enabling them to be "lazy", on the large scale (for military and government funded stuff, it may be the case).The poor on the other hand are actually being handed money that government took from someone else.
    So no, they are not equal, it's not a matter of government taking from the poor/middle class and handing to the rich (which it does not), vs. taking form the rich and handing to the poor/middle class (which it does)And the really poor are not the question, it's largely the middle-class that is getting the ride. There is some percentage of the poor who should receive help, and while government may not be the ideal vehicle for that, it may suffice.

    Second, government largely should do neither. I should be the that chooses if I spend my short awareness of life, working or enjoying liesure (you call lazy).
    You realize that someone who works 2x as much and saves, living below their means, and then early retires, is not the same "laziness" as someone who intetionally chooses not to work, but asks for handouts and lives basically on the efforts of someone else?

    You've warped the argument so much it's scary.
    Last edited by Mach; 11-26-12 at 12:41 PM.

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