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Thread: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

  1. #131
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Risk always makes a difference. This is why portfolios are diverse, and you won't see them based mostly on investments that are volatile. A good portfolio should be 50% stable securities at the very least. High profit investment tools should be the tip of an iceberg. Why do you think that municipal bonds tend to have lower rates? They're tax exempt. Makes sense, don't you agree?
    You're not actually explaining about why income derived from a riskier activity should be counted differently than income derived from a less risky one. At least not afaict.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Yeah...I don't really feel like breaking out CAPM models and so on. We'll end the discussion here.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ah yes, the tired mantra from the right that the rich are getting punished. Yep, they sure look like they are SOOOO punished.
    Oh, so they are supposed to look as if they have just lived through the equivalent of the Big Crash eh? Maybe that is what you want, maybe in your own way you really want to see people economically above your own status brought down a peg or two....I don't know, but it sure isn't anything to do with what this country was built on.

    Seems you like using class warfare for the rich. And before you try another tired post suggesting I don't pay my fair share, I pay more than that but I'm not complaining like some whining ass baby like the right are.
    I don't know if you are wealthy, but I am not. I have laid out many times for all to see, that I am demographically solid middle class, two income below $100K. But if you are telling us that you are paying more than you are required to do, then good for you. I simply can not afford to do that, and to tell the truth, considering the way DC wastes money, I wouldn't.

    However, the class warfare is not in advocating a lower tax burden in tough economic times, but in that argument that states that taxing the well off as a means to solve our problems without spending being addressed first, or that somehow the $80 bn per year would solve deficits of $1.4 tn is what class warfare looks like to me.

    We live in the greatest country in the world, even with the tax rates the way they are now, if you feel otherwise maybe you and others should consider moving to a more "fair" country. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
    I agree that we live in the greatest country in the world, but if your argument of fair is stealing the wealth of the well off, to give to those who contribute nothing to the system then it isn't me that should be searching expedia my friend.
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nothing yet, but at least you tried....Look, what would you ascribe to this statement...



    What's fair is fair, we are supposed to be "equal under the law".... A progressive taxation system doesn't do this.
    That's because you don't see the underlying measure of economics. You are seeing economics through dollars and cents, but dollars and cents are representative of value, which ultimately is used to purchase a certain standard of living. In reality, we should be (and generally are) taxing people in a manner of shared suffering, not based on a percentage of income. The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that a dollar is static in value, but it's not. A dollar has relative value. Relative to the time period you are assessing, relative to the world economy in whole, and relative to the person who holds it. In short, $1 to Warren Buffett does not have the same relative value aas $1 to someone on Welfare. Losing that dollar would do much more harm on the poorer of the two.

  5. #135
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah...I don't really feel like breaking out CAPM models and so on. We'll end the discussion here.
    Good that you're saving that, because that still doesn't address the question of why one set of money should be treated differently from another in re taxes.

    Yes, you're discussing risk, money and taxes, but you're not really hitting the question. afaict anyway.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon
    Good that you're saving that, because that still doesn't address the question of why one set of money should be treated differently from another in re taxes.

    Yes, you're discussing risk, money and taxes, but you're not really hitting the question. afaict anyway.
    The government rewards investments in this way, which is a direct result of risk. You have to incentivize it, or else the risk/reward ratio simply does not benefit the average investor.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The government rewards investments in this way, which is a direct result of risk. You have to incentivize it, or else the risk/reward ratio simply does not benefit the average investor.
    It seems that it only allows marginally riskier investments to have an easier time raising funds.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Our definitions of "marginally" differ greatly.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    That's because you don't see the underlying measure of economics. You are seeing economics through dollars and cents, but dollars and cents are representative of value, which ultimately is used to purchase a certain standard of living. In reality, we should be (and generally are) taxing people in a manner of shared suffering, not based on a percentage of income. The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that a dollar is static in value, but it's not. A dollar has relative value. Relative to the time period you are assessing, relative to the world economy in whole, and relative to the person who holds it. In short, $1 to Warren Buffett does not have the same relative value aas $1 to someone on Welfare. Losing that dollar would do much more harm on the poorer of the two.
    Again I will ask you specifically a simple question....Do you see the tax code as a tool to punish wealth?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    We can not expect universal agreement on anything.
    Ain't that the truth....Lately I think if not only for the contrarian value of it.
    ••I'm trying to think of ANYTHING that EVERYONE has ever agreed on

    When we vote, we are choosing the ones who make these decisions on our behalf. Some will agree and some won't.
    Really? Why that's brilliant....I had no Idea....
    ••That's why they pay me the big bucks. Not just a genius but damn near a deity

    There are many high income people who are comfortable with higher taxes and some who are vehemently opposed.
    Well, let the high income people so willing to give others money away, stroke that check themselves...They can do so now you know....
    ••Would be nice if we could all pay our own chosen tax rates but lets stick to at least an element of realuty

    By having a "government" we have delegated this authority, for better or worse.
    Yep, and they are supposed to answer to us, not the highest bidder.
    ••Nobody agrees more that our politicians are corrupt and self-serving. They are secure in their positions. Congress approval rating = 10%. Incumbent re-=election rate = 90%. So which "us" are they answering to?

    We can only hope that these powers will be used wisely.
    You mean like when they ram through a trillion dollar stimulus that gets wasted on crony's and green energy pipe dreams, then laughed about later?
    •• Definitely not a case of wisdom IMHO and it wasn't done by just one party, anymore so than say "The Patriot Act". This is the byproduct of corruption.

    Definitely, they are usually used unwisely as far as I'm concerned but our social contract compels me to comply with these decisions.
    No, there are remedies, but the most recent one, the stupidity won over the rational.
    ••Then it wasn't a remedy, was it? Also, I don't think we were offered much of a choice. One rock, one hard place.

    n the case of the proposed tax modifications, I think you'll be surprised at the substantial percentage that will agree. INHO, the amounts involved can be described as unfortunate, but not catastrophic.
    The level of catastrophe will be in the eye of the beholder....
    ••This beholder does not believe that an increase of 6.5% of income in excess of $250K will be only unfortunate, not catastrophic. When I see declamations like 100% tax I have trouble connecting the 2 concepts. I paid 40.5% throughout the Clinton era and survived it quite nicely.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ain't that the truth....Lately I think if not only for the contrarian value of it.



    Really? Why that's brilliant....I had no Idea....



    Well, let the high income people so willing to give others money away, stroke that check themselves...They can do so now you know....



    Yep, and they are supposed to answer to us, not the highest bidder.



    You mean like when they ram through a trillion dollar stimulus that gets wasted on crony's and green energy pipe dreams, then laughed about later?



    No, there are remedies, but the most recent one, the stupidity won over the rational.



    The level of catastrophe will be in the eye of the beholder....

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