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Thread: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

  1. #101
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Regressive is a semantic. In this case it conveys the meaning. The final impact is far greater for te lower income vs. the higher income. I do realize that the term can be used in other ways.

    Others might just call it "unfair" but I don't subscribe to the fairness doctrine. I'm a member of The Logical Party, not the Fairness Party. Life isn't fair but we humans have some control over this. It's easier for me to empathize with someone trying to make ends meet on $9K and not so much on $900K.


    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Flat tax is not regressive by definition. Look it up.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why should capital gains be taxed at all? Hasn't the money being invested already been taxed at the normal rates?

    Who owns my labor?
    Capital gains does not tax the capital invested as, as you point out, it has already been taxed. Capital gains tax is a tax on the profit earned on the invested capital.

    By example, if you invest $100 today and sell that investment for $1000 one year from now, the tax would be $135... ($1000-100=900; 900*.15=$135)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-27-12 at 01:54 PM.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Regressive is a semantic. In this case it conveys the meaning. The final impact is far greater for te lower income vs. the higher income. I do realize that the term can be used in other ways.

    Others might just call it "unfair" but I don't subscribe to the fairness doctrine. I'm a member of The Logical Party, not the Fairness Party. Life isn't fair but we humans have some control over this. It's easier for me to empathize with someone trying to make ends meet on $9K and not so much on $900K.
    Impact is a subjective term. But I dont empathize with either. The purpose of taxation is not to distribute the burden according to need. Its to pay for services. And everyone should pay the same for the same services. That is fair. The only reason its progressive is because spending is so high that the only way its affordable is if the richest subsidize it.

    For example, alternative energy is the same way. Its not affordable, but rather than simply not doing it, we redistribute wealth to subsidize it. From those with ability to those with need. Its wrong.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why should capital gains be taxed at all? Hasn't the money being invested already been taxed at the normal rates?
    Why should purchases be taxed at all? Hasn't the money being spent / received already been taxed at the normal rates?
    Money is subject not just to double taxation, it's subject to indefinite taxation.
    A dollar gets taxed every time it changes hands.
    If I took the dollar directly from the mint and spent it, it could be taxed when I spent it. Then it could be taxed as the income of the seller. Then if the seller pays a wage with it, that dollar is taxed yet again. Then if the wage earner spends the dollar, it gets taxed again and the cycle continues.
    It's almost as if transactions are taxed not the money itself.
    hmmm...
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Not true. Tax is imposed whenever the law says it is. For example, if you dont have health insurance, you pay a tax.
    I'm speaking of underlying tax theory. Exemptions are granted by law for economic benefit. My point is, if you want all the benefits of corporate personhood, you have to accept the drawbacks as well. There is no reasonable economic benefit from forgiving the taxes between corporations and the recipients of their distributions.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Absolutely, so when you take that which has already been taxed many times over, and tax it again because you think that any gain made from the risk of investing that money is due the government, then you effectively tamp down levels of investment.
    What if it gets taxed for some other reason?
    Does it have the same effect?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Very few things in life are "fair". I can understand your desire for fairness but our entire society is not structured that way.

    You could say that it would be fair that an hour of labor is an hour of your life and fairness would dictate that every hour be of equal value. So, if I make $20 an hoiur, so should you. But that's not how it works. Everything is subject to re-evaluation to achieve balance.

    Alternative energy is almost a separate topic. It's expensive and inefficient but if we don't address it, we imperil our future.


    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Impact is a subjective term. But I dont empathize with either. The purpose of taxation is not to distribute the burden according to need. Its to pay for services. And everyone should pay the same for the same services. That is fair. The only reason its progressive is because spending is so high that the only way its affordable is if the richest subsidize it.

    For example, alternative energy is the same way. Its not affordable, but rather than simply not doing it, we redistribute wealth to subsidize it. From those with ability to those with need. Its wrong.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    I'm speaking of underlying tax theory. Exemptions are granted by law for economic benefit. My point is, if you want all the benefits of corporate personhood, you have to accept the drawbacks as well. There is no reasonable economic benefit from forgiving the taxes between corporations and the recipients of their distributions.
    The economic benefit is to encourage economic activity. When you tax something you get less of it.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Very few things in life are "fair". I can understand your desire for fairness but our entire society is not structured that way.

    You could say that it would be fair that an hour of labor is an hour of your life and fairness would dictate that every hour be of equal value. So, if I make $20 an hoiur, so should you. But that's not how it works. Everything is subject to re-evaluation to achieve balance.

    Alternative energy is almost a separate topic. It's expensive and inefficient but if we don't address it, we imperil our future.
    But if we agree on a trade of labor for money, whatever that may be, its fair because we both accepted it. The same can go for taxation. If we agree with govt on a tax for service trade, then thats fair. But we dont have that choice. Govt simply does whatever it wants and send some people the bill.

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    Re: The Millionaires Who Pay the Highest Tax Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The economic benefit is to encourage economic activity. When you tax something you get less of it.
    Except that the last 30 years has shown this not to be true. The only benefit from reduced taxes on investment income is potentially an increase in capital for investment. An important fact is that capital for investment is NOT revenue. It does NOT stimulate economic growth. The benefit of capital is that it provides the funding for growth, similar to a loan, but it does not provide a reason for growth. Companies grow with increased demand, not with available capital.

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