• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Walmart workers demand better wages

Sounds good, but it doesn't work that way. And when management holds all the power, workers have often been abused. We do have history you know.

Define "abused". In the distant past, true abuses may have happened, but what modern example do you have of it?

I also disagree with your "management holds all the power". A friend of mine is a welder. He happens to be skilled enough to do pipeline and high quality construction. He doesn't work for any particular company but moves around when he feels like it and never has problems finding a job. One job he took, the immediate supervisor was a jerk. He simply walked away. Apparently, so did a lot of the other qualified welders, since the company contacted him a few months later to ask him to come back because they had fired the jerk. Since the job demands a high skill level and the supply of people capable of it does not exceed the jobs available, management had no power over them.

Skilled labor often has some control over management because of the reduced competition for jobs, not from unions. Employers often seek out skilled labor in many areas because there are a limited number of skilled workers available and they have to offer more to keep/attract them. In the case of unskilled labor at walmart, this affect doesn't exist because it is just too easy to replace someone in most places. If someone is working at walmart because it is the only job they can get, then they also need to taking opportunities to get skill training in a marketable skill. If they don't, then they have demonstrated that part-time with no benefits is all they are worth and they will be payed at that level. Direct slavery and indentured servitude do not legally exist in this country. No one, other than the individual, can stop a walmart worker from bettering themselves.
 
So she can just go and find another job in an economy everybody has a problem with?

Yes she can. I know of a place where McDonalds is paying people $10.00/hr...which apparently is more than the average worker at Wal-Mart gets. They are getting that because there simply isn't enough people willing to do that job around there. Mainly because of all the oil companies hiring people in that area...which pays much better.
 
The overwhelming false premise that I see in here so far is that these people are somehow 'locked' into a job, whether it be Wal Mart, or some other place that when painted by the liberal mindset is the equivalent of a modern day sweat shop. This is simply a lie.

Wealth in this country is fungible, the pie is not finite. More millionaires are with us today than at any time in our past, and more are being made daily. Some people don't like their job, and switch to something else, others, go into business for themselves, and still more switch careers altogether.

When I started out, as a young man fresh out of the Military, I found that my military training was not transferable to the outside world, so I went into sales...I did pretty good, but that was a tough time for sales period, and with a new family I needed something solid, and reliable. So I started driving truck. It has not made me rich, but it has provided a solid middle class existence for me and my family.

The point is that people in this country can do what ever they want, even today at 50 yrs old, I could wake up tomorrow with a good idea, and strike it in my own business...We can not accept the liberal picture of workers held down in crappy jobs they hate, because that is their world, not reality.
 
We can not accept the liberal picture of workers held down in crappy jobs they hate, because that is their world, not reality.

^^This statement resonates with me. And, of course, these people are right about themselves. The only WAY they have a shot at the "American Dream" is in a union atmosphere where they will be consistently rewarded for mediocrity.
 
The overwhelming false premise that I see in here so far is that these people are somehow 'locked' into a job, whether it be Wal Mart, or some other place that when painted by the liberal mindset is the equivalent of a modern day sweat shop. This is simply a lie.

Wealth in this country is fungible, the pie is not finite. More millionaires are with us today than at any time in our past, and more are being made daily. Some people don't like their job, and switch to something else, others, go into business for themselves, and still more switch careers altogether.

When I started out, as a young man fresh out of the Military, I found that my military training was not transferable to the outside world, so I went into sales...I did pretty good, but that was a tough time for sales period, and with a new family I needed something solid, and reliable. So I started driving truck. It has not made me rich, but it has provided a solid middle class existence for me and my family.

The point is that people in this country can do what ever they want, even today at 50 yrs old, I could wake up tomorrow with a good idea, and strike it in my own business...We can not accept the liberal picture of workers held down in crappy jobs they hate, because that is their world, not reality.
And the funny thing is the newest rebuttal is "Yeah, but what if they have a great idea but can't fund it". I know this is going to be taken as insulting by some but A) Not everyone has great ideas or skillsets, which is why we have low paying jobs, like ditch diggers, stockers, etc. and (B) Not everyone has the risk tolerance or focus to fund a great idea once they have it.

This is why inventors and businessmen are celebrated and usually demand higher pay, there aren't a lot of people with that large of a mental tool bag.
 
And the funny thing is the newest rebuttal is "Yeah, but what if they have a great idea but can't fund it". I know this is going to be taken as insulting by some but A) Not everyone has great ideas or skillsets, which is why we have low paying jobs, like ditch diggers, stockers, etc. and (B) Not everyone has the risk tolerance or focus to fund a great idea once they have it.

This is why inventors and businessmen are celebrated and usually demand higher pay, there aren't a lot of people with that large of a mental tool bag.


Absolutely true....I over the years have had more than one good idea, but I know my limitations. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to even approach putting something into motion, nor do I have the expendable income to attempt it. So, I am what I am, and should I get fed up with it, I know it's up to me to change it, not my employer to take care of me.
 
The overwhelming false premise that I see in here so far is that these people are somehow 'locked' into a job, whether it be Wal Mart, or some other place that when painted by the liberal mindset is the equivalent of a modern day sweat shop. This is simply a lie.

Wealth in this country is fungible, the pie is not finite. More millionaires are with us today than at any time in our past, and more are being made daily. Some people don't like their job, and switch to something else, others, go into business for themselves, and still more switch careers altogether.

When I started out, as a young man fresh out of the Military, I found that my military training was not transferable to the outside world, so I went into sales...I did pretty good, but that was a tough time for sales period, and with a new family I needed something solid, and reliable. So I started driving truck. It has not made me rich, but it has provided a solid middle class existence for me and my family.

The point is that people in this country can do what ever they want, even today at 50 yrs old, I could wake up tomorrow with a good idea, and strike it in my own business...We can not accept the liberal picture of workers held down in crappy jobs they hate, because that is their world, not reality.

Please show a list of the statistics which show MORE jobs than workers in this nation. AND please show, city by city, where all these fantastic jobs are that hire a 50 years and banks which will give him/her money for a business.

Thanks.
 
Yes she can. I know of a place where McDonalds is paying people $10.00/hr...which apparently is more than the average worker at Wal-Mart gets. They are getting that because there simply isn't enough people willing to do that job around there. Mainly because of all the oil companies hiring people in that area...which pays much better.

A recent article pointed out that this is so much the case in Minot ND, that a home improvement company is flying in workers from out of state.
 
And the funny thing is the newest rebuttal is "Yeah, but what if they have a great idea but can't fund it". I know this is going to be taken as insulting by some but A) Not everyone has great ideas or skillsets, which is why we have low paying jobs, like ditch diggers, stockers, etc. and (B) Not everyone has the risk tolerance or focus to fund a great idea once they have it.

This is why inventors and businessmen are celebrated and usually demand higher pay, there aren't a lot of people with that large of a mental tool bag.

That, and many do not care to work/earn outside income beyond a, self defined, comfortable level, leaving themselves more free time to enjoy. Having a "menial" job, sufficient for one's basic needs, is far less stressful that constantly striving for more, leaving little time to actually enjoy one's life. :)
 
Please show a list of the statistics which show MORE jobs than workers in this nation. AND please show, city by city, where all these fantastic jobs are that hire a 50 years and banks which will give him/her money for a business.

Thanks.


None of this have I claimed....I won't participate in your straw arguments.

thanks.
 
Please show a list of the statistics which show MORE jobs than workers in this nation. AND please show, city by city, where all these fantastic jobs are that hire a 50 years and banks which will give him/her money for a business.

Thanks.

That would entirely depend on your skills. There are far more workers available than jobs at walmart. But there are far more jobs for Registered Nurses than there are Registered Nurses in the country. You cannot really get the real picture by just general jobs vs people, you have to break it down into skills. Unskilled is always heavy towards workers instead of jobs. There is now and probably will always be more unskilled/low skilled workers than unskilled/low skilled jobs available. Many skills have been chronically short for decades. Even in the low skill/no skill job market there are jobs that are chronically short of labor, they involve outdoor hard physical labor and lazy people don't want to take these jobs. They would rather try to force walmart to pay more so that they can have the easy job under climate control instead.

Even if you went to college, you may have gotten a degree where there are far more people with that degree than number of jobs available. However, if you had studied for a different degree and did well, companies would be sending Representatives to you with job offers because there is a lack of people with that skill.

A better education system would help a lot, but not totally clear up all the problems. Some skills just take a lot of hard work and discipline to obtain the skills and will always be short as long as there is not enough people with the motivation and discipline to achieve the basic skill set required. And not all of them require higher than normal IQs either.

If these people running around protesting walmart would spend the time that they use to bitch, complain and demonstrate against walmart, then they would probably have better paying jobs.
 
That, and many do not care to work/earn outside income beyond a, self defined, comfortable level, leaving themselves more free time to enjoy. Having a "menial" job, sufficient for one's basic needs, is far less stressful that constantly striving for more, leaving little time to actually enjoy one's life. :)

No kidding. I would rather take a fairly decent hourly job than work in management, no matter how much management pays. If I make enough to be comfortable, give me that 40hr/week low stress job any day. (This of course assumes some break through in medical science that would actually let me work again.)
 
No kidding. I would rather take a fairly decent hourly job than work in management, no matter how much management pays. If I make enough to be comfortable, give me that 40hr/week low stress job any day. (This of course assumes some break through in medical science that would actually let me work again.)

I prefer to work "off the books" now, having reached 58 and looking forward to drawing my SS at 62. I work about three, eight hour days per week for $12.25/hour ($100/day) doing repair/remodel construction/handyman work. I have several landlords that use me regularly and get enough referals to keep busy. With rent at $300/month, utilites at about $200/month that leaves plenty for food, beer and life's odds and ends. I never bill enough (at once) to require a 1099 form so IRS does not get in the picture. In years past, that I did get 1099s then I worked enough to get a W2, that year, so as not to be considered "self employed", which cost me plenty in taxes.

LOL. As I posted this, I got a call to level a mobile home, about 2.5 days of work. :)
 
Last edited:
That, and many do not care to work/earn outside income beyond a, self defined, comfortable level, leaving themselves more free time to enjoy. Having a "menial" job, sufficient for one's basic needs, is far less stressful that constantly striving for more, leaving little time to actually enjoy one's life. :)

Absolutely true....I over the years have had more than one good idea, but I know my limitations. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to even approach putting something into motion, nor do I have the expendable income to attempt it. So, I am what I am, and should I get fed up with it, I know it's up to me to change it, not my employer to take care of me.
I'm intensely driven, have a running bad luck streak at the moment but I'm not complaining, I realize that once I gain traction back it's up to me to make good decisions, put money into the right areas, and invest in my ideas while learning how to keep them active. It's MUCH more stressful than having a set schedule with set demands, the known that ttw spelled out. I have limitations like anyone else as j-Mac well put it, but it's up to individuals to conquer those limitations and excel, not those who employ them after taking their own risks.
 
No kidding. I would rather take a fairly decent hourly job than work in management, no matter how much management pays. If I make enough to be comfortable, give me that 40hr/week low stress job any day. (This of course assumes some break through in medical science that would actually let me work again.)
Employees don't see the management end. In an 8 to 5 the clock strikes and the employee goes home, his job is done unless there is an overtime necessity and many times that is voluntary. Managers don't "8 to 5", they direct the work done during the day, then stay to balance the books, numbers have to line up, plus compliance laws must be accounted for and it falls under management problems.

Add to that, in the event that an employees paycheck bounces it's a personal problem that management must fix. So one employee has to worry about his individual compensation, but management has to worry about every individuals compensation. On top of everything, at the end of the day it everything must balance out to the organization's benefit or the manager is gone, not the employee. In the worst times management must find a way to make the company survive and in the best times the company must flourish, employees don't have that pressure.
 
The overwhelming false premise that I see in here so far is that these people are somehow 'locked' into a job, whether it be Wal Mart, or some other place that when painted by the liberal mindset is the equivalent of a modern day sweat shop. This is simply a lie.

Wealth in this country is fungible, the pie is not finite. More millionaires are with us today than at any time in our past, and more are being made daily. Some people don't like their job, and switch to something else, others, go into business for themselves, and still more switch careers altogether.

The point is that people in this country can do what ever they want, even today at 50 yrs old, I could wake up tomorrow with a good idea, and strike it in my own business...We can not accept the liberal picture of workers held down in crappy jobs they hate, because that is their world, not reality.

I'm a liberal and I'm posting in this thread a lot, and I have never once said that people at Walmart hate their jobs. What I did say was that Walmart hires displaced employees and those who need a job immediately so they can take advantage of them. I believe that nobody who works hard at a full time job should have to be using food stamps due to their paycheck covering little more than rent. The knock on Wal-Mart is that they hire displaced individuals and those who immediately need jobs because those are the people who can be taken advantage of. Wal-Mart can and should pay higher wages or give better benefits and they should be much more socially responsible.

If a Walmart had 150 employees, they could give every one of them a $1,000 bonus and they'd be giving as much as Michael Duke makes in an hour. I think it's the right thing to do, and while I know your argument is "they make what they are worth," the CEO doesn't make what he's worth - he makes however much he can get away with taking. But I get it, you think they should go elsewhere if they don't like their jobs. I think people should fight for what they think is positive and fair. Those 150 employees would spend the extra $1,000 without any doubt and many of them would spend it immediate. It would go right back into the economy. Instead, Wal-Mart's ceo takes it and locks it up. It vanishes.

Ben and Jerry's has embraced the values of investing in the community, in people, and being fair to everybody from top to bottom. There's the type of society I want to live in, and there's another type you want to live in. But if you're going to disagree, at least consider and acknowledge what the other side is saying.
 
I'm a liberal and I'm posting in this thread a lot, and I have never once said that people at Walmart hate their jobs. What I did say was that Walmart hires displaced employees and those who need a job immediately so they can take advantage of them.
What you should be doing is thanking WalMart for giving the displaced and the desperate a place to work and earn a salary until something better comes along.
The knock on Wal-Mart is that they hire displaced individuals and those who immediately need jobs because those are the people who can be taken advantage of. Wal-Mart can and should pay higher wages or give better benefits and they should be much more socially responsible.
OK, you are the CEO of WalMart. How much per hour should a greeter or entry level shelf-stocker earn per hour? Keep in mind that right now they are making $8 which is above the federal minimum wage. Then tell me what a more skilled position like check out person or receiving clerk should make. And dont weasel out and say you dont know. Give me an answer.
 
Mgmt doesn't "hold all the power"... You don't have to work there. You can find employment elsewhere, or if you are confident enough in a skill, or trade you have you can start your own business and work for yourself.

Your's is a false dilemma...

That's another over simplification. Especially when jobs are scarce. It is fundamental that when employees are able to bargin together, they have more leverage. And when had more unions, people made a better living.
 
That's another over simplification. Especially when jobs are scarce. It is fundamental that when employees are able to bargin together, they have more leverage. And when had more unions, people made a better living.


Nah, I don't think so.... Individually of course, this is still America, you can do what you want...Nothing forces you to stay at a job...If you believe you are worth more, then either accept the path your current job affords you to move up, or find something else...No one said it would be easy, but none the less.

Union advocates especially those astroturfing Wal Mart are trying to force unionization through a very dishonest display....Not from overwhelming support of the workers, but rather they want it so they are making much up out of thin air.
 
Nah, I don't think so.... Individually of course, this is still America, you can do what you want...Nothing forces you to stay at a job...If you believe you are worth more, then either accept the path your current job affords you to move up, or find something else...No one said it would be easy, but none the less.

Union advocates especially those astroturfing Wal Mart are trying to force unionization through a very dishonest display....Not from overwhelming support of the workers, but rather they want it so they are making much up out of thin air.

How do you know? I mean, you've research or polled Walmart workers?
 
How do you know? I mean, you've research or polled Walmart workers?


Well, for one, the totally staged astroturf on Black Friday, using bussed in agitators, and only 50 employees walked out for the protest out of 1.4 MILLION employees. Secondly, my son works for the Wal Mart here while he goes to collage, and according to him, his co workers think it is a joke.
 
Well, for one, the totally staged astroturf on Black Friday, using bussed in agitators, and only 50 employees walked out for the protest out of 1.4 MILLION employees. Secondly, my son works for the Wal Mart here while he goes to collage, and according to him, his co workers think it is a joke.

While you be exaggerating again, if true it says nothing factually about the bushes of Walmart employees. And your son is too small a sample. I know several workers at several stores, who say the opposite (and my sample is too small as well).
 


ive had my coworker show me the math,and ive guestimated myself,my math had basically no variables and was based off everyone working part time,his had more variables.

by simply giving every worker a 2 dollar an hour raise that wouldnt make the slightest difference to workers,would cost billions for walmart,due to the sheer number of employees.raising them 5 dollars an hour would practically bankrupt walmart.walmart itself would dissinegrate and cease to exist under union pressure or simply meeting worker demands.


i am actually in favor of walmart unionizing,walmart would go out of business and no company would ever unionize again after unions destroy the countries largest retailer and possibly the only company in america that would die overnight from unionization.
 
What you should be doing is thanking WalMart for giving the displaced and the desperate a place to work and earn a salary until something better comes along. OK, you are the CEO of WalMart. How much per hour should a greeter or entry level shelf-stocker earn per hour? Keep in mind that right now they are making $8 which is above the federal minimum wage. Then tell me what a more skilled position like check out person or receiving clerk should make. And dont weasel out and say you dont know. Give me an answer.

They should make $10.65 and have benefits and the guarantee that you and the other employees will have an opportunity to get a promotion over an applicant outside the company. They should offer a one time scholarship for every full time employee who's been with the company longer than 1 year, and it can be used for their kids if they choose so.

The community programs would include assistance to help with local food shelves and shelters, and we would ensure that any employee would be able to access help in any manner should they be very ill, have an accident, or lose a family member.

I could do that because my company would have net sales of over $400,000,000,000 a year.

Crazy ideas, right?
 
Back
Top Bottom