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Walmart workers demand better wages

I would...but I didn't write it. I don't know what "responsibility as a group of human beings" entails. I was a third-party peanut gallery commentator.
 
Hairytic said:
I really need you to be more specific. Everything from environmental radicalism to Obamacare is very vague. Can you name just a few specific policies or regulations and explain how they raise our taxes or harm this country in some way?
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Sure Read these....

Five major ObamaCare taxes that will hit your wallet in 2013 | Fox News

Obamacare: Seven New Taxes on Citizens Earning Less than $250,000

Obamacare Raises Taxes on 3 Million Middle-Class Americans

On Environmentalism'

EPA Regulations Ensnare Small Businesses in a Web of Red Tape | Energy & Commerce Committee

Americans for Tax Reform : EPA Regulation of the Day: Greenhouse Gases

http://assets.nationaljournal.com/pdf/NERA 3 0 FINAL.pdf

Although I am sure that you probably won't even read these articles, and papers provided before you just out of hand dismiss them, it is a sad state of affairs that Obama was re elected on pure rhetoric by the very people he is bleeding dry.
 
j-mac said:
Although I am sure that you probably won't even read these articles, and papers provided before you just out of hand dismiss them, it is a sad state of affairs that Obama was re elected on pure rhetoric by the very people he is bleeding dry.
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But he's a Democrat. No Democrat would ever do that!

Plus if you vote for Obama, you're not a racist...ya f'n racist.
 
j-mac said:
This is an interesting phrase "tax dodging"..... It connotes something shady, while there is a form of avoiding taxes that is fully legal, and indeed promoted by the IRS. For example, as a truck driver, I am extended $53. per day per diem, write off on my gross income for every day I am driving. It is set by the IRS, and legal to take, and allows me to lessen my taxable income by about $13K per year. I also pay a mortgage that since I am a relatively new 'homeowner', most every payment I make is all interest, so I get to write that off as well, lowering my taxable income by another $13K per year....

This allows me to by goods, and contribute to the economy through out the year, that without those deductions, I would have NO expendable income, and probably wouldn't have been able to afford the house we have in exchange for something more modest, if at all....Am I 'dodging' taxation? You're damned right! Is it illegal, or a bad thing? I don't think so, see, I believe that I own my labor, not the government.
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Im willing to bet anyone that USES that phrase 'tax dodging' either files an EZ, doesnt file at all, or is claiming their own full exemptions.
 
RLN said:
For the rich? How much money goes in to the pot is nothing compared with how much those folks get to keep.
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Except the funding of government is not a problem. If it were, you might have a point about raising revenue. What the government needs money for is to fund its wealth transfer schemes. The money it wants from the rich is just money it plans on diverting to the poor/middle class.
 
I generally don't like expressing the more hard-line aspects of my sort of Marxism, but, in this case, they're past due.

j-mac said:
WalMart does indeed give back....the first thing they do is to offer products at an affordable price that allows those in the lower rungs of the economic ladder to have much that they wouldn't have otherwise. The larger picture that WalMart does is evident in their response to Katrina, and Sandy.
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All while subjecting their workers to the tyrannies of private ownership. WalMart is a massive, unaccountable beast that can, and will, set their wages at whatever level they please(provided it's above minimum wage, which needs to be raised).

WalMart workers create income for those at the top, all while living under their thumb.

"Over the next few days, Wal-Mart's response to Katrina -- an unrivaled $20 million in cash donations, 1,500 truckloads of free merchandise, food for 100,000 meals and the promise of a job for every one of its displaced workers -- has turned the chain into an unexpected lifeline for much of the Southeast and earned it near-universal praise at a time when the company is struggling to burnish its image."

Wal-Mart at Forefront of Hurricane Relief

"What we're doing to help
Some examples of the disaster relief efforts we've been involved in so far include:

Working with the American Red Cross to help support disaster shelter operations by donating essential items (water, food, snack items, personal care products, diapers, blankets) to serve those displaced by Hurricane Sandy.
Pledging up to $1.5 million to our disaster relief partners (American Red Cross, Salvation Army, Feeding America) to help with relief efforts in the hardest hit areas to ensure the essential needs of residents are being met.
Facilitating numerous requests from several government officials in the impacted areas, such as Mayor Booker in Newark, Governor Christie of NJ and Mayor Bloomberg in NYC. Those requests have ranged from transporting generators to schools and hospitals in the city of New York last night to delivering about a million bottles of water throughout the northeast.
By teaming up with a number of our suppliers, we are working to lend an extra hand to the areas that need our support. Some examples of what we're doing include:

JOHNSONVILLE: On Nov. 9-11, we're hosting the World's Largest Grill in select New York store parking lots to serve hot meals for those affected by or responding to the devastation and mass power outages of Hurricane Sandy. Our supplier Johnsonville is bringing the brats and the grill, the stores and clubs are providing the buns and drinks and our associates are volunteering to help feed the community.
Additionally, Sam's Clubs in the Northeast are also offering cell phone recharging stations and temporarily waiving membership fees to those areas affected by the storm."

Walmart Corporate - Hurricane Sandy Disaster Response
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They donate to charity. Big deal. So do most people.

Ok? so what would you like to see?
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What I'd like to see is WalMart raising their minimum wage such that all full-time employees live above the poverty line.

Regardless of what you wish this country of our was, what it is, is NOT a democratic socialist society.
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Yes, I've made it clear that I'm aware of that fact.

And you, j-mac. Regardless of what you'd like it to be, our country does not run according to your agenda of corporatist fascism. We have standards here and implement policies that help the poor(see. CCCs), not push them further in to poverty.

"ad hom"? What ad hom? You know, when you can't hold your own in the debate with facts, it is the weak way out to claim that you're being attacked....No one attacked you.
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Ad hom doesn't imply an attack. :lol:

But, show me where top down governmental control of an economy has worked long term.
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Top down? Really?

I advocate for a system where private, top-down corporations are deprived of their ability to further damage America's working class.

If anyone wants top-down societal organization, it's you Republicans.
 
Fletch said:
Except the funding of government is not a problem. If it were, you might have a point about raising revenue. What the government needs money for is to fund its wealth transfer schemes. The money it wants from the rich is just money it plans on diverting to the poor/middle class.
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Well may God Bless Them. Seeing the way those tax cuts have helped out the rich for numerous years and the private sector can't seem to get the thing going, someone has to keep the cycle spinning.

Quite the shame though. I would rather see a well paid worker that pays taxes instead of taxes being used by anyone so that people can live. The private sector had the chance to do this with those tax cuts and blew it. Corporations reporting record profits while having it easy with taxes while not keeping a strong economy is no good; the private sector needs to step up to the plate and hit a higher batting average instead of crying. ;)
 
OpportunityCost said:
Respectfully disagree. Corporate social responsibility dictates that eventually any policy that is viewed neagtively by the public will cost sales and profit. I would say it has reached that point with Wal-Mart. They could engage in a pay step scale that doesnt leave employees in danger of losing raises faster than the minimum wage is raised in states. Wage compression is a very real issue in Wal-Mart and they ought to address it.

Better employee wages also tend to make for better employee customers---something to consider.

Last note: Wal-Mart is not the same company it was under Sam Walton and any employee that has been there since he was the boss will say as much. The company has changed considerably and while it is the largest employer in the US, its days are numbered---internet sales are going to dent Wal-Mart just as hard as they are other retail outlets. The reasons why someone shops will have as much to do with service and environment as they do with convenience and price in as little as 10 to 15 years. Wal-Mart would do well to examine their employment model closely, it wont last as it is forever.
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Most of your ideas are nothing more than business decisions, and the market should get to decide whether or not those decisions are correct or not. Walmart seems to have little problem filling their available employment spots, and there is no such thing as an employee that is not there of their own choosing.. Each employee voluntarily came came to the store and filled out the application form fully knowing the terms and conditions of their employment. As other have pointed out, you are not wed to a contract, and you have ample time to search elswhere where your services may be of more value. In addition, Walmart, like many other corportions, tend to promote from within where possibe, so your starting salary need not be your ending salary. In addition, I have heard that there are more millionaire employees at Walmart than any other American corporation. You just have to ride with the company to success.

I have no clue what corporate social responsibility is. If you mean that the corporation is somehow responsible for the welfare of their employees, then I would disagree. Everyone should be responsible for their own social and economic situations.

I would agree that whatever the customer perceives as value will be reflected in the success of the company. The fact is that the company is the largest and one of the most profitable companies in the country, and if the market chooses to go elsewhere, then the company will of necessity either adapt or fail.

Lastly, if you believe in your corporate model, you are free to start a competing retailer, and if your model more reflects the desires of the customer, then you should be proud to have been the one that brought Walmart. If you think that government intervention is the answer, then you will lose that right
 
waas said:
Sorry, I meant civic duty. And I wasn't talking about WalMart this time - though I suppose it's still applicable.

Civic duty refers to the basic responsibility we all have to those around us. It refers to the responsibility a CEO has to the folks who earn for him/her. To the responsibility a person has to their countrymen. It refers to the compassion that is the foundation of democratic socialism.
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Walmart pays market wage. If he pays anything more than that, as an already part-time working college student, I would gladly offer to undercut it and accept market wage, and I would work harder at it then the current employees.

If they deserved a higher salary, they wouldn't be working at Walmart. Simple as that.
 
jimbo said:
Most of your ideas are nothing more than business decisions, and the market should get to decide whether or not those decisions are correct or not. Walmart seems to have little problem filling their available employment spots, and there is no such thing as an employee that is not there of their own choosing.. Each employee voluntarily came came to the store and filled out the application form fully knowing the terms and conditions of their employment. As other have pointed out, you are not wed to a contract, and you have ample time to search elswhere where your services may be of more value. In addition, Walmart, like many other corportions, tend to promote from within where possibe, so your starting salary need not be your ending salary. In addition, I have heard that there are more millionaire employees at Walmart than any other American corporation. You just have to ride with the company to success.

I have no clue what corporate social responsibility is. If you mean that the corporation is somehow responsible for the welfare of their employees, then I would disagree. Everyone should be responsible for their own social and economic situations.

I would agree that whatever the customer perceives as value will be reflected in the success of the company. The fact is that the company is the largest and one of the most profitable companies in the country, and if the market chooses to go elsewhere, then the company will of necessity either adapt or fail.

Lastly, if you believe in your corporate model, you are free to start a competing retailer, and if your model more reflects the desires of the customer, then you should be proud to have been the one that brought Walmart. If you think that government intervention is the answer, then you will lose that right
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Don't think I could put it better.

I love all these "ivory tower" business intellectuals. If they know so much, why don't they try to test it out? Emperical evidence is the name of the game, and people either learn quickly or go broke. (When I say "ivory tower" I exempt economists. They do actually have to apply what they know because they are actually involved in policy making, and often employed by businesses.)
 
RLN said:
Well may God Bless Them. Seeing the way those tax cuts have helped out the rich for numerous years and the private sector can't seem to get the thing going, someone has to keep the cycle spinning.

Quite the shame though. I would rather see a well paid worker that pays taxes instead of taxes being used by anyone so that people can live. The private sector had the chance to do this with those tax cuts and blew it. Corporations reporting record profits while having it easy with taxes while not keeping a strong economy is no good; the private sector needs to step up to the plate and hit a higher batting average instead of crying. ;)
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and so far Obama has done next to nothing about it. I was shocked to see him cave in and allow the Bush "temporary" tax cuts get extended.
If he lets it slide again, he will be a twice elected idiot...
 
jimbo said:
Most of your ideas are nothing more than business decisions, and the market should get to decide whether or not those decisions are correct or not. Walmart seems to have little problem filling their available employment spots, and there is no such thing as an employee that is not there of their own choosing.. Each employee voluntarily came came to the store and filled out the application form fully knowing the terms and conditions of their employment. As other have pointed out, you are not wed to a contract, and you have ample time to search elswhere where your services may be of more value. In addition, Walmart, like many other corportions, tend to promote from within where possibe, so your starting salary need not be your ending salary. In addition, I have heard that there are more millionaire employees at Walmart than any other American corporation. You just have to ride with the company to success.

I have no clue what corporate social responsibility is. If you mean that the corporation is somehow responsible for the welfare of their employees, then I would disagree. Everyone should be responsible for their own social and economic situations.

I would agree that whatever the customer perceives as value will be reflected in the success of the company. The fact is that the company is the largest and one of the most profitable companies in the country, and if the market chooses to go elsewhere, then the company will of necessity either adapt or fail.

Lastly, if you believe in your corporate model, you are free to start a competing retailer, and if your model more reflects the desires of the customer, then you should be proud to have been the one that brought Walmart. If you think that government intervention is the answer, then you will lose that right
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I don't know if you can show me the actual number of millionaires that Walmart has produced, but I can show you just how tough it is on a Walmart worker with pay and advancement.

Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement ~ Huffington Post

Walmart Internal Compensation Document
 
Incredulous said:
This would help to explain the customer service. My mother has worked at a WalMart in Texas for about 5 years. She says that have the worst management she's ever worked with.
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The Walmart here in our small community in south Texas is about the same. You see employees walking around doing who knows what while standing in a long line to make a purchase because only one or two cash registers are open. Many employees seem rather bland and unmotivated like they work for a government entity.

That's why we do out grocery shopping and everything else we can buy from HEB, our only grocery store in the area. Their prices are good and they are customer responsive and friendly.
 
UtahBill said:
and so far Obama has done next to nothing about it. I was shocked to see him cave in and allow the Bush "temporary" tax cuts get extended.
If he lets it slide again, he will be a twice elected idiot...
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People making between $49,999-$70,000 will be hit the hardest when the Bush tax cuts expire. Their tax rate will go up from 15% to 28%. So much for helping out the middle class.

And in case you don't already know it, $70,000 is barely getting by for a family of four. Most likely your credit card balance increases each month.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061182672 said:
People making between $49,999-$70,000 will be hit the hardest when the Bush tax cuts expire. Their tax rate will go up from 15% to 28%. So much for helping out the middle class.

And in case you don't already know it, $70,000 is barely getting by for a family of four. Most likely your credit card balance increases each month.
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The Bush tax cuts in that income range are not going to change. It's all a game of chicken.
 
The corporate world of today is looking for private and/or individual advantage and will pay any sum to both sides of the political aisle to get it. The playing field has gotten very uneven.
It makes no sense to me to have so many lower middle class paying no taxes, but when their pay is low they simply can't afford to pay taxes. I am not talking about the uneducated and unskilled, but those who make $50K, have a mortgage and 3 kids, and end up not paying taxes.
Instead of giving decent pay raises to those with skilled jobs, over time we have given them tax breaks until they pay no taxes at all, even getting more back than they pay in.....but the corporate world likes it because they don't have to pay out so much in salaries. Their business expenses have gone down which is just as good as a tax rate reduction, the bottom line looks better either way. Now, if they can just get the salary break AND a tax reduction.....
The poor will always be with us, where did we hear that first? New Testament, I think.....
I have relatives who are poor by choice, and they get no sympathy from me. They are lucky that low skill jobs are still available. If the retail businesses decide to go more online and less bricks and mortar, there will be even fewer low skill jobs.
IOW, things could easily get worse.....
 
UtahBill said:
and so far Obama has done next to nothing about it. I was shocked to see him cave in and allow the Bush "temporary" tax cuts get extended.
If he lets it slide again, he will be a twice elected idiot...
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Sorry. You're neglecting to mention the rest of the story.

If Obama would not have extended those tax cuts than Republicans would have never have allowed what Obama wanted and that would include:

  • extends unemployment benefits for 13 months
  • includes a one-year Social Security tax cut, among other measures.
  • the taxes would have affected the middle class too if not signed in it's present state
  • included tax breaks for millions of college students and their families and extensions of the earned income tax credit and $1,000-per-child tax credit.
  • Had Congress not acted to address the expiring Bush-era tax cuts, all Americans would have seen a tax increase on January 1st. (The average tax increase per family, the White House said, would have been $3,000.) Mr. Obama, who had long opposed extending the Bush tax cuts for America's highest-earners, has argued he had no choice but to agree to GOP demands to do so in order to avoid a tax increase on the middle class.
 
RLN said:
Sorry. You're neglecting to mention the rest of the story.

If Obama would not have extended those tax cuts than Republicans would have never have allowed what Obama wanted and that would include:

  • extends unemployment benefits for 13 months
  • includes a one-year Social Security tax cut, among other measures.
  • the taxes would have affected the middle class too if not signed in it's present state
  • included tax breaks for millions of college students and their families and extensions of the earned income tax credit and $1,000-per-child tax credit.
  • Had Congress not acted to address the expiring Bush-era tax cuts, all Americans would have seen a tax increase on January 1st. (The average tax increase per family, the White House said, would have been $3,000.) Mr. Obama, who had long opposed extending the Bush tax cuts for America's highest-earners, has argued he had no choice but to agree to GOP demands to do so in order to avoid a tax increase on the middle class.
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Obama should be a soccer player, anyone who can simultaneously kick 5 cans down the road without wakening the public is very talented...
 
UtahBill said:
Obama should be a soccer player, anyone who can simultaneously kick 5 cans down the road without wakening the public is very talented...
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:roll: :funny That's nothing. You should see how Michelle Obama jumps rope.
 
RLN said:
I don't know if you can show me the actual number of millionaires that Walmart has produced, but I can show you just how tough it is on a Walmart worker with pay and advancement.

Walmart's Internal Compensation Documents Reveal Systematic Limit On Advancement ~ Huffington Post

Walmart Internal Compensation Document
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Like I said, that is just what I have heard, and it is not important enough to me to bother to look it up. I do know that Walmart has employee stock option plans available even for part time employees. Taking advantage of whatever is available to you to increase your net worth and compensation is up to you.

As others besides myself have pointed out, you are not forced to work for Walmart or any other employer. And if you do work for a company where you do not feel you are appreciated, move on, get a better education start your own business, do whatever is necessary to improve your lot in life. I did read part of the Huffpuff piece, and my immediate thought was that why on earth would you get pregnant if you do not make enough to support a new child. I]m repeating myself, but your lot in life generally tends to depend on your own actions.
 
RLN said:
Sorry. You're neglecting to mention the rest of the story.

If Obama would not have extended those tax cuts than Republicans would have never have allowed what Obama wanted and that would include:

  • extends unemployment benefits for 13 months
  • includes a one-year Social Security tax cut, among other measures.
  • the taxes would have affected the middle class too if not signed in it's present state
  • included tax breaks for millions of college students and their families and extensions of the earned income tax credit and $1,000-per-child tax credit.
  • Had Congress not acted to address the expiring Bush-era tax cuts, all Americans would have seen a tax increase on January 1st. (The average tax increase per family, the White House said, would have been $3,000.) Mr. Obama, who had long opposed extending the Bush tax cuts for America's highest-earners, has argued he had no choice but to agree to GOP demands to do so in order to avoid a tax increase on the middle class.
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A. encourages many to not even try to find a job
B. a trifle, at best
C. good, that will get them off the couch for a change.
D. EITC needs to go away, wages need to go up to make it so. Tuition costs need to go down instead of giving tax breaks for tuition. Child tax credit is means tested, I hope.
E. again good....

Ever watch the old shell game in action? We have taxes, tax brackets, tax exclusions, tax breaks, tax incentives, tax credits, etc. under a bunch of rapidly moving shells, until nobody can know where the pea is......there is a reason these things are so confusing, it is done on purpose, to keep us unaware of what is really going on....whatever the hell that is...
 
UtahBill said:
If the retail businesses decide to go more online and less bricks and mortar, there will be even fewer low skill jobs.
IOW, things could easily get worse.....
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:roll: Yeah. OK. I don't want you coming in here and start a thread on why you get pissed off while trying to talk to a computer instead of an actual human being on the phone. :2razz: ;)
 
jimbo said:
Like I said, that is just what I have heard, and it is not important enough to me to bother to look it up. I do know that Walmart has employee stock option plans available even for part time employees. Taking advantage of whatever is available to you to increase your net worth and compensation is up to you.
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Yeah if you can keep up with your bills while investing in that; it must be harder for people part time too. :roll:
 
RLN said:
:roll: Yeah. OK. I don't want you coming in here and start a thread on why you get pissed off while trying to talk to a computer instead of an actual human being on the phone. :2razz: ;)
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why should that happen? almost everything I buy on line involves filling in the blanks, it is all on me to get it right.
computers are far more reliable than humans...and when computers foul up, the most common cause is that a human programmer did something wrong...
 
UtahBill said:
why should that happen? almost everything I buy on line involves filling in the blanks, it is all on me to get it right.
computers are far more reliable than humans...and when computers foul up, the most common cause is that a human programmer did something wrong...
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I agree with you. I shop on line alllll the time. Never a problem. When they take PayPal? It's a cinch. Amazon's my favorite. I use an Amazon Visa card and get $$ to spend there. Their prices are great. Their delivery is generally two days. Never had a problem. I think that's definitely the wave of the future. And when it becomes more solidly ensconced? Window shopping and the consumerism that generates will disappear. IMO.
 
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