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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #961
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    In any case I am not argueing that Wal-Mart or other companies shouldn't pay more. I am argueing that they do not HAVE to pay more. Employee's do not have a right to more. Yet many argue that they have a right to more. They demand that the companies give them more. That is wrong. It is not thier company even if they do work there. They have no rights to more than minimum wage.

    Actually they can find work someplace else. I know of several jobs not only in my area but also in other states that offer better pay even with the same experiance and ability that most Wal-Mart workers have. Though the jobs are harder physically. Some of those companies are even so desperate for employees that they are even offering to pay the employee to move over to thier state. Providing gas money to get there, and housing. There is no lack of jobs available. It is whether those people are willing to do the kind of work that is available or not. The ONLY reason that I don't take advantage of some of those jobs is due to my wife not wanting to move.
    There is a lack of jobs available. Health Care coverage has been increasing in the United States, college tuition has been increasing, and high level jobs are not available. This whole "they don't have to do anything" mindset is ridiculous. I don't know if posters in this thread have gone off the deep end or if middle and lower class Americans are so used to getting the short end of the stick that they have developed some kind of capitalistic Stockholm Syndrome.

    Let me make my viewpoint as simple as it can possibly be. Walmart moves into a community, takes business away from local and independent commerce, takes on the displaced employees and then pays them minimum wage for high stress, undesirable positions with bare bones benefits because they know they can take advantage of these people. They are making an incredibly large amount of profit and their employees are barely getting by. Missing a day of work isn't the difference between a 46 inch HDTV and a 50 inch HDTV, it is the difference between their family having dinner every night of the week and their family having dinner 6 times that week. Nobody should be speaking up for Walmart because they don't HAVE to give their employees paid time off. They should make sure that their employees are compensated fairly, and if they don't want to give them promotions or raises, they should give them health care and other benefits.

    The attitude expressed by so many here seems to me like pilgrims settling in Jamestown, forcing the Native Americans to convert to Christianity, attend their schools, and pay taxes to their local government, and then telling them that if they don't want to do it they can leave. Because you see they didn't have to let the Native Americans stay, they could have forced them to march west to Oklahoma, but the Pilgrims were so wonderful and kind they allowed the Native Americans to stay and even have a 10% discount on non-grocery items as long as they weren't on sale (after they had lived there for at least 2 years as a full time resident).
    Last edited by Mustachio; 11-27-12 at 10:56 PM.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't matter, there is always a process to deal with poor employees. Always. Some harder than others, but the process is there. And largely no not much different in good companies that are not unionized. What there is a myth that you can't fire poor employees. It really isn't true.
    You should note that I did say that it was rather hard to fire crappy employee's. Not that it can't happen. But thats the point. It shouldn't be hard to fire a crappy employee. It should be as simple as saying "You're Fired!". The fact that it is hard to get rid of them shows that unions have more power than they should have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A strike is part of the process. They fail sometimes. But it is a tool, hopefully only used when there is just cause to use it. And the table isn't one sided. Ever see the NFL lock out? See replacement employees hired? See people fired? Of the tools each side has, the union is really not the one with a dominate hand. Both sides use tools.
    A club is a tool also, doesn't mean it should be used for its intended purpose does it? Yeah, it may fail sometimes. But that is mainly dependent on when and where the strike is held. That NFL strike iirc was done when it didn't really matter that there was a strike. Imagine if they had had the strike on the day of the Super Bowl. How fast do you think that the CEO's of NFL would have capitulated then? Generally though it does not fail. That is to say that it succeeds far more than it fails. Don't get me wrong. I agree that there are times when a strike is necessary. However that is rarely the case any more. Strikes should be used only when there are health hazards or sub par equipment being used. (thinking of schools for that one) But it should never be used for pay raises when the pay is more than minimum wage.

    I am also curious as to why you didn't comment on my comment about what happened with Boeing....
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    You seem at least somewhat knowledgeable about this area...

    Question: I’ve heard from various locations (most if not all “conservatives”) that one thing unions want is “open ballots”, or some such, probably to do with whether or not a given facility wants to become unionized…

    Basically the idea presented is that this will allow pro-union people to intimidate those employees who might not want a union into voting for it.

    And thus it is bad.
    Ergo, unions (and democrats, who support them, of course) are bad.


    I digress.
    My question is, do you or for that matter anyone know of a union which actually supports this idea? Because to me it’s obviously bad, but I’m not sure whether it’s BS made up by these conservative talk radio people or reality.
    Randel may better answer your question.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No it's not. It's a fact.
    Nope. A myth. Like many, you just believe it because it sounds good. But feel free to present any objective evidence from a credible source.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You should note that I did say that it was rather hard to fire crappy employee's. Not that it can't happen. But thats the point. It shouldn't be hard to fire a crappy employee. It should be as simple as saying "You're Fired!". The fact that it is hard to get rid of them shows that unions have more power than they should have.



    A club is a tool also, doesn't mean it should be used for its intended purpose does it? Yeah, it may fail sometimes. But that is mainly dependent on when and where the strike is held. That NFL strike iirc was done when it didn't really matter that there was a strike. Imagine if they had had the strike on the day of the Super Bowl. How fast do you think that the CEO's of NFL would have capitulated then? Generally though it does not fail. That is to say that it succeeds far more than it fails. Don't get me wrong. I agree that there are times when a strike is necessary. However that is rarely the case any more. Strikes should be used only when there are health hazards or sub par equipment being used. (thinking of schools for that one) But it should never be used for pay raises when the pay is more than minimum wage.

    I am also curious as to why you didn't comment on my comment about what happened with Boeing....
    The reason it is hard is because you have to prove they are crappy employees. Merely being told they are crappy isn't the same as being proven crappy.

    There's a reason the. Interact doesn't end during Super Bowl week. Best to schedule negotiations well. Like I said, being smart is a two way street.

    But the point is both have tools. Both use them. Even using the media to present a message favorable to your side is a tool. But it is rare that either side is completely in Lala land.

    I'll return and try to address the Boring issue soon. As I don't fully recall it, I likely didn't think it the major point. When I'm moving back and forth, I try to hit the main points.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    There is a lack of jobs available.
    Perhaps there are too many people available? Or maybe technology is improving too fast and should be slowed down?

    Walmart moves into a community, takes business away from local and independent commerce,
    Shoppers take their business away from local and independent stores.

    takes on the displaced employees and then pays them minimum wage for high stress,
    Residents take minimum wage jobs. Willfully. And "high stress?" Haha.

    They should make sure that their employees are compensated fairly,
    Employees should make sure they are compensated fairly. Why would anyone willingly do something that is unfair? They signed a contract to work there, and can stop at any time.

    and if they don't want to give them promotions or raises, they should give them health care and other benefits.
    It has already been said elsewhere in this discussion: no business compensates their employees out of charity or to guarantee some sort of lifestyle outcome to an employee. They offer to pay what the work is worth to the company. The more they want or need their employees to stick around and not quit on a whim (as they do constantly), the more it benefits them to compensate at a higher rate. But when there is a virtually endless supply of expendable labor (new rounds of 16-year olds every year who live at home and just spend the cash they make on dates and video games), and the work to be done requires no skill, virtually no training, and no specialized knowledge, there is no business sense whatsoever in pumping up those wages.

    The attitude expressed by so many here seems to me like pilgrims settling in Jamestown, forcing the Native Americans to convert to Christianity, attend their schools, and pay taxes to their local government, and then telling them that if they don't want to do it they can leave.
    That's an extremely terrible comparison (on multiple levels).
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 11-27-12 at 11:53 PM.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You should note that I did say that it was rather hard to fire crappy employee's. Not that it can't happen. But thats the point. It shouldn't be hard to fire a crappy employee. It should be as simple as saying "You're Fired!". The fact that it is hard to get rid of them shows that unions have more power than they should have.



    A club is a tool also, doesn't mean it should be used for its intended purpose does it? Yeah, it may fail sometimes. But that is mainly dependent on when and where the strike is held. That NFL strike iirc was done when it didn't really matter that there was a strike. Imagine if they had had the strike on the day of the Super Bowl. How fast do you think that the CEO's of NFL would have capitulated then? Generally though it does not fail. That is to say that it succeeds far more than it fails. Don't get me wrong. I agree that there are times when a strike is necessary. However that is rarely the case any more. Strikes should be used only when there are health hazards or sub par equipment being used. (thinking of schools for that one) But it should never be used for pay raises when the pay is more than minimum wage.

    I am also curious as to why you didn't comment on my comment about what happened with Boeing....
    Ok I remember now. I didn't know they reason they won in court. It matters. If a court ruled that way, I'd like to know why before commenting.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #968
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Perhaps there are too many people available? Or maybe technology is improving too fast and should be slowed down?
    It's a combo of not enough jobs due to economic issues and too many people looking for jobs. Probably.



    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Shoppers take their business away from local and independent stores.
    This is true. If Wal-Mart didn't provide a service people needed or thought they needed, the customers wouldn't go there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Residents take minimum wage jobs. Willfully. And "high stress?" Haha.
    Agree first. Second is relative. What you or I consider high-stress probably differs, only makes sense that it's different for everyone.




    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Employees should make sure they are compensated fairly. Why would anyone willingly do something that is unfair? They signed a contract to work there, and can stop at any time.
    Tied in with the real or imagined low number of jobs available, many people might take a job at pay they don’t really consider fair just to stay afloat financially. But you are correct, in part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It has already been said elsewhere in this discussion: no business compensates their employees out of charity or to guarantee some sort of lifestyle outcome to an employee. They offer to pay what the work is worth to the company. The more they want or need their employees to stick around and not quit on a whim (as they do constantly), the more it benefits them to compensate at a higher rate. But when there is a virtually endless supply of expendable labor (new rounds of 16-year olds every year who live at home and just spend the cash they make on dates and video games), and the work to be done requires no skill, virtually no training, and no specialized knowledge, there is no business sense whatsoever in pumping up those wages.
    Not all wal-mart jobs are such. But some are, very likely.




    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    That's an extremely terrible comparison (on multiple levels).
    Agree.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    They are demanding better treatment and wages from one of the most profitable, and most rich companies in the world.
    the success of walmart is irrelevant. low skill labor that any chimpanzee can perform does not warrant higher wages.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    There is a lack of jobs available. Health Care coverage has been increasing in the United States, college tuition has been increasing, and high level jobs are not available. This whole "they don't have to do anything" mindset is ridiculous. I don't know if posters in this thread have gone off the deep end or if middle and lower class Americans are so used to getting the short end of the stick that they have developed some kind of capitalistic Stockholm Syndrome.
    Sorry but there are plenty of jobs available. Companies in N. Dakota are paying people to come over and work. Alabama is begging for employees. There are jobs available in my area. And I could go on. The question that you should ask is why won't these people get those jobs? In N. Dakota McDonalds pays its employee's a little over $10/hr starting out. Oilfield workers average pay is $19/hr. Yeah that may not be 100k/year job...but it IS a job. One that easily pays the bills and puts food on the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Let me make my viewpoint as simple as it can possibly be. Walmart moves into a community, takes business away from local and independent commerce, takes on the displaced employees and then pays them minimum wage for high stress, undesirable positions with bare bones benefits because they know they can take advantage of these people. They are making an incredibly large amount of profit and their employees are barely getting by. Missing a day of work isn't the difference between a 46 inch HDTV and a 50 inch HDTV, it is the difference between their family having dinner every night of the week and their family having dinner 6 times that week. Nobody should be speaking up for Walmart because they don't HAVE to give their employees paid time off. They should make sure that their employees are compensated fairly, and if they don't want to give them promotions or raises, they should give them health care and other benefits.
    Tell you what. You answer me the following 2 questions and I'll respond to this. I have a friend that does taxidermy. He pays a total of $15 to make a piece out of a deer hide. Yet he can (and has) sell that piece for $1500. Why does his price for that piece go for so much more than what it took to make it?

    Next when Sam Walton started his very first store he slightly under cut his competitors....even the big ones. Why can't, or why don't, stores do that now...only to Wal-Mart?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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