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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #901
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No it wouldn't, that would be a different discussion.
    Of course it would be a different discussion. A discussion where your point is openly wrong instead of hidden behind the false morality that you have when you focus on inheritance. Let me ask you a question. If a person builds a company, like Wal-Mart, from the ground up...not inheriting it...do they have the right to the millions that they make? Do they have the right to dictate how much thier employee's make and not give into demands if they do not want to?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Sure ... but they arn't being paid for mental labor, they are being paid for just controling capital, if they do management work, its fine to get compensation for that, but just owning capital isn't labor, and most of their money comes from just controlling capital.
    Do you really think that it doesn't take mental labor to control the company? Do you think that there isn't mental labor involved in controlling capitol?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats bull****, it's not individual rights vrs collective rights ... Corporations are not individual entities, the are social entities and economics is a social activity, also its not mob rule, unless all democracy is mob rule, the difference is monarchy, i.e. either everyone in the corporation has a say or it's just the boss, i.e. democracy vrs dictatorship, this has nothing to do with individual rights, that's a strawman.
    I never stated that Corporations are individual entities. The way that you have been argueing though is that there are two sides in this paradigm. The CEO (one person) and the employee's (talking as if they are one). "The CEO should give employee's more money" or "The CEO should give employee's more benefits". Not because they deserve it but because they have a right to it "because those employee's are more important than the CEO" (note that I am paraphrasing here)

    And yes, economics is a social activity. One that includes more than those employee's. It includes every single person alive. But like every social activity there is always those on the top, and those on the bottom. That will never change and is impossible to get rid of...even with unions.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    What about the individual right of the worker to have a say about what happens to the wealth he helps produce ... The point is a boss will pay himself the most amount possible and the workers the LEAST amount possible, thats not a meritocracy, a democracy is much of a meritocracy.
    The worker has no right to say what happens to the wealth he helps produce. He abrogates that by agreeing to work for someone else for a certain amount of pay. Even the companies administrators do not have that right. Only the owner does. Anyone else has to have his permission. The only way that a worker has that right is if they own the company.

    Lets look at it this way. Does the individual employee have to pay any other employee? Does the individual employee have to pay the manufacturing costs? Does the individual employee have to pay the electric bill? The permits? Does the individual have to worry about whether thousands of products will sell or not? Does the individual employee have to worry about negative publicity that could loose customers? Does the employee have to pay for the products that are bought wholesale? Does the grocery night stocker have to worry about making sure that the electronics section is stocked?

    I could go on and on with that list. But in all of them the answer is No. The employee does not have to do any of that. The only thing that the employee has to do is do the ONE job that they are assigned to. The one job in hundreds that are required of such companies like Wal-mart. The owner of the company has to make sure that all of that is accomplished. He/She normally does that by hiring other people to make sure its done. But if its constantly not then it must be brought before his/her attention so that he/she can remedy the situation. Along with remedying the situation that made that situation get all the way up to him. (just one small example of how a CEO's job includes more than just controlling capitol) A CEO has to worry and take care of the whole company, the individual worker that you are mostly talking about only has to worry about one thing.

    So, with that said...why should the employee, who again only takes care of one small detail among hundreds, have a "right" to dictate the wealth that his/her already compensated work goes towards?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Because the work in a cooperative ... I don't get you're point?
    Perhaps I didn't understand your point? Maybe you could expand on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    You have to move from the place where you spend most of the day ... yeah.
    Umm...not sure of your point here. I sense sarcasm here....Are you saying that moving from one job to another in the same area is too much?
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  2. #902
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I knew I was wasting my time the moment I typed "the least you can do is try to understand it." It should have been obvious to me that you set your bar a little lower than the point of comprehension. I was comparing the psychological reasons that compel people to stay in a situation that is detrimental to their long term well being and I made that clear.

    The people who work at Walmart work incredibly hard. I was there on Thursday night and I saw hundreds of people running around the store and I remember working in retail (and the time a coffee shop I worked at ran a promotion where they gave away free blended drinks which was traumatic) and it's amazing what those people do. You've deflected a lot of other people's opinions but aren't eager to offer up your own. Why do Walmart employees stay there? Do they like their jobs? Do they deserve whatever they get because they can walk out the door at any time and find a new job, but they don't?

    I've already shared my opinion as to why they stay there. But whatever the reason is, this much is clear - they work extremely hard, they are the foundation of Walmart and they deserve to have a voice and fair compensation. Also, while I think most Walmart employees want more in life than what they've got, some of them simply don't care about getting rich, but that doesn't mean they're forfeiting their right to speak up for themselves. They shouldn't live knowing they'll lose their house if their child gets cancer just because they don't make enough money to afford a top shelf health care policy.
    Lots of people work hard and move on to other jobs.
    Simply put, there is no reason to arbitrarily increase their wages, while the rest of retail workers, who also work incredibly hard, get paid roughly the same.
    The fact is that employment in low skill jobs is not wage competitive, there are other options that allow people to move up and/or out.

    We can't constantly baby people, these are adults, that have options and can make choices.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Wal-Mart SUPPORTS the outsourcing of jobs with what they sell. They made $3.6 billion dollars and the Waltons did NOTHING to contribute to that. We DON'T have jobs in this nation which support families. THAT'S a fact which makes OUTSOURCING the center of this argument. Unionize Wal-Mart for liveable wages and full-time employment with the offering of affordable health care and STOP wal-Mart draining the food stamps and Medicaid from states.
    Bloody hell. Brilliant. The day people insist a bunch of non-skilled workers at WalMart become a union is the day WalMart should give them all the big **** you and shut every door in every city across the country. But THATS truly what it all comes down...this whole BS about poor WalMart employees. Unions. Get more people on that union payroll, so you can send more money to the political campaigns. Notice no one is crying about convenience store workers, or Target employees, or any other non skilled employees. The Waltons like every other rich person in the country should divest, bury their funds, go on vacation for two years, and watch how much fun everyone has.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    it is, as i know that those machines cost someone a job....if given the choice, i will always pick a human to scan my merchandise.
    Those machines also made someone a job, because they need to be fabricated, programmed, shipped, installed and maintained. Machines also don't unionize and demand to be paid $40K per-yr + benefits for unskilled work; nor do they get injured or pregnant, go on medical leave and draw unemployment, all of which keeps my costs as the consumer low.

    I personally proffer the machine because no one asks me to sign up for a credit card and the line is smaller.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Bloody hell. Brilliant. The day people insist a bunch of non-skilled workers at WalMart become a union is the day WalMart should give them all the big **** you and shut every door in every city across the country. But THATS truly what it all comes down...this whole BS about poor WalMart employees. Unions. Get more people on that union payroll, so you can send more money to the political campaigns. Notice no one is crying about convenience store workers, or Target employees, or any other non skilled employees. The Waltons like every other rich person in the country should divest, bury their funds, go on vacation for two years, and watch how much fun everyone has.
    If you truly think Wal-Mart would give up its monopolies because of unions, then you REALLY don't know this economy at all.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  6. #906
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As opposed to naturally occurring cartels (pick an product: oil, internet providers etc) which are what? Full of good will and generous with customers?
    No, you've just highlighted other problems in the market.
    That doesn't, in any way, make it acceptable for union monopolies to exist.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    If they want better pay, they should seek employment elsewhere. Walmart is notorious for its crappy conditions, and why anyone would ever seek employment there is baffling.
    Most of the people working at Wal Mart don't have the gumption to get a better job; not so baffling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, what randel said.

    I really don't want to merely repeat him, but unions merely allow employees a strong enough voice to effectively negotiate with management.
    A union could do that, without the legal monopoly.
    With the legal monopoly, it's just a rent seeking relationship.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Easy to say since jobs today are so ****ing plentiful
    Then, they should stop complaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No, you've just highlighted other problems in the market.
    That doesn't, in any way, make it acceptable for union monopolies to exist.
    And yet, nobody of any significance on the right seems to complain about the cartels formed by oil companies. On the other hand, they keep advocating for more drilling, more resources being opened to these cartels in hopes that they'll somehow forget about making money and lower gas prices.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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