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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This I fundamentally don't buy. A company is more than the owner. In fact the companies success depends as much or more on the employees than ti does the owner. The larger the company the more this is true.

    And it's not half way through the job. Instead, there are scheduled times when they negotiate, which would be like the next time I took the car in. The mechanic, as happens, would inform me of the need to raise prices, and I would weight that against my needs and begin a negotiation (and yes, it is possible to negotiate).
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If we wanted them skilled, we'd get them there. Ask yourself why we don't?
    Ah, there is the core of it at last. WE should do something, not the individual. You want to place the blame on others, not the individual that made the choices.

    Should we hold a gun to someones head and force them to go to school to learn how to be a $15 an hour EMT with all the hard work needed to get through that school, so that individual won't take the $30/hr unskilled union job in the auto industry that requires no schooling or skills? That way they won't end up unemployed when that auto maker outsources the job to someplace with a better labor rate. Should we stand over them with whips in hand and beat them mercilessly until they choose to go to Nursing school instead of letting them choose for themselves because they might end up a cashier at Walmart instead?

    Each and every individual makes their own choices, WE cannot force them to make different ones. Even today, with our less than stellar over-expensive liberalized school systems, there are opportunities available if those individuals would choose to pursue them. Raising unskilled labor rates is not the way to encourage people to take advantage of those opportunities.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have to hurry but nonsense. There is seldom any real difference in what any of them set, and they can be replaced, like anyone else. They are not magic, or even super educated. Sure, they are knowledgable. But without the employee, the company fails.
    You are wrong. I work for a company that has had 1 CEO retire and 1 that was otherwise replaced... I, as a simple analyst, notice huge impacts and differences between the CEO and the way the company goes including goals/requirements.
    Last edited by buck; 11-27-12 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    If and only if a union were strictly between a business and its workers.
    like i said, everything in my post is correct....the employees in the shop ARE THE UNION.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Ah, there is the core of it at last. WE should do something, not the individual. You want to place the blame on others, not the individual that made the choices.

    Should we hold a gun to someones head and force them to go to school to learn how to be a $15 an hour EMT with all the hard work needed to get through that school, so that individual won't take the $30/hr unskilled union job in the auto industry that requires no schooling or skills? That way they won't end up unemployed when that auto maker outsources the job to someplace with a better labor rate. Should we stand over them with whips in hand and beat them mercilessly until they choose to go to Nursing school instead of letting them choose for themselves because they might end up a cashier at Walmart instead?

    Each and every individual makes their own choices, WE cannot force them to make different ones. Even today, with our less than stellar over-expensive liberalized school systems, there are opportunities available if those individuals would choose to pursue them. Raising unskilled labor rates is not the way to encourage people to take advantage of those opportunities.
    Yes, we. If the work force wanted trained individuals, they'd make sure they had them. As a nation, if we valued education of this sort, people would be educated so. While you're trying to suggest I'm taking individual responsibility away, you're wrong. We all hold individual responsibility. And nothing takes that away. But we also hold communal responsibility. As a community, we can make it easier or harder. Left up to nothing but the individual, fewer will get there. We know that. It's how the bell curve works. So, when we have not enough, as you suggest, all of us, including business can throw up our hands and say, too bad. Or we can act to help increase the number. It's not socialism. It's not removing personal responsibility. And it is kind of silly to suggest either, Instead it is merely problem solving. Something good CEOs do.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You are wrong. I work for a company that has had 1 CEO retire and 1 that was otherwise replaced... I, as a simple analyst, notice huge impacts and differences between the CEO and the way the company goes including goals/requirements.
    Again, the choice isn't between either no difference or all the difference. A good one is far superior to a poor one. But not the most important thing. A company, particularly a large corporation, is more than any one person. The strength, the core, is the average employee. Like the private in the military, they move the company, interpret the vision, create and foster the image in the customer, and make the business run. We need both workers and management. But no CEO is worth 671 times more than the workers in the company.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #847
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    the world needs ditch diggers and toilet cleaners, but to insist that anyone should get paid $20/hr to do so is ridiculous. minimum wage, unskilled jobs should be stepping stones...temporary gigs until you can educate/train yourself for something better and not a career. If you are 40 years old and still stocking shelves at walmart you are either mentally challenged and just plain lazy/unmotivated.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Be realistic. There is a very quick plateau for cashiers in terms of "accumulated experience". It is not a deep career or skillset, and there is nothing wrong with that. I was a cashier/stocker for two years. I was a bank teller for two (glorified cashier). I'm not silly enough to claim that in 10 years I would be worth a lot more to the company however. There are plenty of entry-level people looking for entry-level jobs. You could look at it from the reverse perspective, you cheat entry-level candidates of that entry-level position if you park yourself at a job that plateaus in a few years, but you make it your "career" instead.
    No, you are right. That's defintely true on both accounts. I don't know necessarily if there is a quick plateau. I do think people learn things whatever they are doing but yes, I agree....it's not a job comparable to say a surgeon seeing everything under the son and someone just out of med school.

    I do think though there are a lot of benefits beyond just to the employee. Experience, even if there is a quick plateau. Training costs. Not to mention, a revolving door of underpaid employees, it's horrible for morale and I think is the reason service sucks so bad in this country. My 2 cents though. I think we get what we pay for including lowering median wages/poor service/and just overall horrible experiences at the bank/electronics store/grocery store or whatever.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    The marketplace works in the sense that you're trying get the most for the least for yourself, and you're forced to ignore the externalities,
    No one is forced to ignore any externalities. Man your arguments sure do require some hard spin.

    especially when workers have less and less disposable income, they are going to go for the cheapest .... However if you put it to a poll, most would vote that the US would be better off if Walmart was unionized, and infact many workers WANT to join unions but cannot.
    If people are stupid and hypocritical enough to lambaste Walmart for cost-minimizing at the same time as they SHOP AT WALMART to cost-minimize, then I could give a **** what they vote in some imagined poll about unionizing Walmart.

    Workers do not go for the cheapest just because of their dwindling disposable income. They go for the cheapest because it is rational. Raise their minimum wage and they will still deal-seek. It is in everyone's rational best interests to maximize benefit while minimizing cost. So yeah, let the morons think that unionizing Walmart will make the country better. At the very best it would result in no gain. All their prices for "the cheapest" will rise, so they will be paying directly for that idea, and will be no better off. In fact they'll be worse off because they can buy less Asian-made plastic ****.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Like the private in the military
    Fine, so if you want to keep comparing it to the military... When a military loses a war, historians will almost always point to decisions made by "the single most important factor", the generals. They are not blaming Private Schmidt for not being positioned properly to repel a DDay invasion or blaming Private Wagner for marching against Russia in the winter without proper equipment. I am hardly saying workers have no import at all, just that, contrary to your claim, the leadership is by far the most important factor and have a much larger and outsized influence upon a business then does the worker.

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