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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    the union decline in the textile and shipbuilding industires was because those jobs no longer existed---the union destroyed those jobs by making those industries unprofitable in the USA.
    So, you're saying our working conditions should be more like China's?
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again I don't buy that. And while they might be able to justify higher pay, which is not the being argued, 671 times the average worker salary is not in any way market value in any reasonable sense.

    And no, it is false that the CEO is the single most important factor to a businesses success. That any have gotten that myth to spread is a sign of how easy it is to sell something to a willing audience. The military used to say that they were only as strong as their weakest private. Such is the case in business as well. Those on the front lines so to speak make or break the company. Overwhelmingly, they are the company.
    So you are also baffled as to why athletes get paid so much? The concepts are identical.

    Let's take a hedge fund manager, for instance. Using his enormous amount of education, skills, experience and intellect, a hedge fund manager makes a 200 million dollar return for his hedge fund. Because of his performance, he gets a 10 million dollar bonus at the end of the year. Now, that's about 500 times what the maid who cleans his office makes. Why the difference in pay? Because anyone can clean an office. Not everyone can manage a hedge fund with that kind of profit.

    He brings in profit, he makes a proportional amount of profit. Simple as that.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So you are also baffled as to why athletes get paid so much? The concepts are identical.

    Let's take a hedge fund manager, for instance. Using his enormous amount of education, skills, experience and intellect, a hedge fund manager makes a 200 million dollar return for his hedge fund. Because of his performance, he gets a 10 million dollar bonus at the end of the year. Now, that's about 500 times what the maid who cleans his office makes. Why the difference in pay? Because anyone can clean an office. Not everyone can manage a hedge fund with that kind of profit.

    He brings in profit, he makes a proportional amount of profit. Simple as that.
    It's not the identical concept, but I would argue they are largely overpaid. Their value is not one objectively reached, and that could be said of most entertainers. Still, the concept is a different one. They divide revenue, and thus have a basis of objective division.

    And we're also not measuring CEO pay against one, the lowest paid, employee on staff, but the average of all the employees, which would include middle management. The hedge fund manager doesn't sound like the CEO, but that aside, the point is how we're making the comparison. You would take all the employees under them, average out the salaries, and then say he is worth some 500 to 600 times more than them. Again, for any company, that makes little logical sense.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again I don't buy that. And while they might be able to justify higher pay, which is not the being argued, 671 times the average worker salary is not in any way market value in any reasonable sense.

    And no, it is false that the CEO is the single most important factor to a businesses success. That any have gotten that myth to spread is a sign of how easy it is to sell something to a willing audience. The military used to say that they were only as strong as their weakest private. Such is the case in business as well. Those on the front lines so to speak make or break the company. Overwhelmingly, they are the company.
    The CEO really is the single most important and has the greatest impact on the success or failure of the business. He sets the corporate culture, communicates what is important (in his eyes), and sets a vision for the company. The employee's job requirements are set based on that vision and if they are not meeting that vision will be fired and if they are meeting that vision will be rewarded.

    It's why when a company does poorly, they typically don't fire the customer service rep, they fire the CEO.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    The CEO really does have the greatest impact on the success or failure of the business. He sets the corporate culture, communicates what is important (in his eyes), and sets a vision for the company. It's why when a company does poorly, they typically don't fire the customer service rep, they fire the CEO.
    It is not a situation of either most important or not important at all. So, while the CEO has an important role, all of what you list falls short in comparison to how important those who actually carry that out are. They, and not the CEO, will make or break that vision.

    And yes, the customer service rep gets fired long before the CEO, and without a golden parachute.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    The problem with paying a "living wage' for unskilled minimum wage labor is that "someone" has to foot the bill for those higher wages. Is Walmart just going to eat the increase if they have to start paying their workers $4-5 more an hour? of course not, they are going to pass that increase along to the consumer. which in turn makes the cost of living go up and the new pay hike the walmart worker is getting is now no longer a living wage...so we have to hike their wages again. in response walmart raises their prices again.... rinse, repeat ad infinitum.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Where are you getting this greedy union boss thing? Where are the Union bosses on the furtune 500? Also it works in Germany because its a good idea, and they are forced to think of the consequences BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMOCRATICALLY ACCOUNTABLE!!!
    They are democratically accountable here in the states too. The union bosses get elected. Problem being is that people are too stupid or too partisan to actually look at the truth. So the same union bosses keep getting elected over and over and over. Just like politicians.

    And yes they are greedy. This was evidence by the fact that 18,000 employees lost thier jobs while them union bosses still have thier jobs. After all, a Union often covers more than just one company. If they had actually cared about the employees then they would have allowed them to go back to work before the deadline. They may not get the billions that Wal-Mart or the like get, but they still get more than their average worker.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Guess what, when Unions were strong in America, we had a strong middle class and strong industry as well ...
    We also didn't have a free trade agreement. Whats your point? The jobs that were available were also not near as specialized as they are now adays and there are multiple other reasons as well. Alot has changed since Unions were strong and needed. They simply are not needed in the US anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    There is nothing genetically that makes germans better than americans, its the system.
    Where did I mention genetics? Of course there is nothing different between us genetically. But there is a world of difference between us culturally.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Because we arn't talking about their father .... Also even IF they work hard, they don't get their money from their work, they get it from controlling capital, if it is from their hard work then put it up to a vote, if they are really indispensible to the company the workforce would vote them compensations that are comprable to what they get now ....
    Of course you don't want to talk about thier father. It would quite easily show that your position was wrong if you did.

    And there are different types of work. There's the kind of work that uses your back and arms every day. There's the mental kind of work that may not drain you physically but certainly drains you mentally...and can even be more dangerous than physical work. I doubt very seriously that you could handle a corporation like Wal-Mart.

    And no vote is needed. They are not a democracy. And besides, mob rule should NEVER be followed. Mob rule tramples peoples individual rights. Which is far more important than collective rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    We have examples of this in cooperatives, managers generally get paid somewhat more, but not nearly as much as they do when they choose their own compensation in capitalist firms.
    They why don't those managers chose thier own compensation? There is nothing saying that they have to work were they get payed less. All they have to do is ASK for more or find another job. Just like any other employee.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Doesn't change the point. BTW, you can move out of a monarchy if you want.
    Not always. Not to mention you don't have to move to quit a job and find another.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It is not a situation of either most important or not important at all. So, while the CEO has an important role, all of what you list falls short in comparison to how important those who actually carry that out are. They, and not the CEO, will make or break that vision.

    And yes, the customer service rep gets fired long before the CEO, and without a golden parachute.
    As the CEO sets what is and is not important, he is absolutely - contrary to your claim - "the single most important factor" to the sucess or failure of a business. Sure, he needs the employees to carry out that vision, but as they are carrying out the vision of the CEO, he is the most important factor. All things, including how the employees are measured will be set by the requirements of the CEO, adding to his importance.

    The CEO's actions, vision and the way he was running the company, will have a very large impact upon wether the company still exists. Further solidifying the CEO as the single most important factor. So, yes, if the CEO's vision is failing you are correct, the CS rep may lose their job due to lack of work, but the CEO is losing his job because he was responsible for the lack of work.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    As the CEO sets what is and is not important, he is absolutely - contrary to your claim - "the single most important factor" to the sucess or failure of a business. Sure, he needs the employees to carry out that vision, but as they are carrying out the vision of the CEO, he is the most important factor. All things, including how the employees are measured will be set by the requirements of the CEO, adding to his importance.

    The CEO's actions, vision and the way he was running the company, will have a very large impact upon wether the company still exists. Further solidifying the CEO as the single most important factor. So, yes, if the CEO's vision is failing you are correct, the CS rep may lose their job due to lack of work, but the CEO is losing his job because he was responsible for the lack of work.
    I have to hurry but nonsense. There is seldom any real difference in what any of them set, and they can be replaced, like anyone else. They are not magic, or even super educated. Sure, they are knowledgable. But without the employee, the company fails.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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