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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No, they also restrict purely profitable decision making that hurts labor ... such as outsourcing, productivity has never been the problem in the US.

    Union power is a large reason why German industry has not been able to outsource.
    You are mixing apples and oranges here. Union power, i.e. influence on gov't trade policy, is not the same as productivity. Compare the productivity of non union Toyota and union GM in their US auto plants.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    Why is there no longer a textile industry in the USA? why is there no longer a commercial shipbuilding industry in the USA? Why are light bulbs made in China? Why are GM cars made in China and Mexico? Unions, my little friend. Unions have destroyed american industries and lost american jobs.
    I've answered this already.

    This outsourcing happened in the 80s and 90s mainly, AFTER UNIONS WERE WEAKEND ... and after neo-liberal policies ... So obviously its not the unions fault, since those things happened post union decline ....

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    So far, I've given evidence, logic, fact, reason and so on ... all you have is "YOU'RE WRONG" ... thats it ... nothing. But by all means continue your nonsense, but don't expect any intellegent people to respect a position you cannot defend.
    LOL, you amuse me with your libtardian logic. you post a foolish chart comparing to unrelated things and then proclaim your conclusions from that meaningless chart as gospel.
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You are mixing apples and oranges here. Union power, i.e. influence on gov't trade policy, is not the same as productivity. Compare the productivity of non union Toyota and union GM in their US auto plants.
    I wasn't talking about productivity ... nor influence on gov't trade policy, I was talking about Union influence on corporate policy.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Have you cleaned up behind the elephant? But I bet you can judge that to be a pretty crappy job just the same.

    Have you ever climbed into the hold of a garbage truck to scrub it out periodically? But I bet you can judge that to be a pretty lousy job just the same.

    Are you following me here or do you need some other examples?

    Jobs a little better than minimum wage where your employer actively works to subvert your rights and manipulates your hours so you never qualify for benefits fit right into the definition of a lousy job.

    Why is WM the target? Probably because their size and success makes them the poster pin up boy for everything that is wrong with the economic trends these days
    *** rabidly anti labor union
    *** expects government to subsidize their lousy wages with tax payer funded welfare/food stamp payments to their workers
    *** buys products from overseas sweat shops who have stolen millions of American jobs
    *** ugly stores where customer service is almost nonexistent
    *** drives out smaller stores and businesses from towns all across America
    *** bullies towns and cities to get breaks and assistance that other businesses cannot get giving them unfair advantage

    and that is just to start
    I agree 100% with your implication. We MUST end welfare NOW to stop the corporate subsidies. If we must have a God-less public policy, the Survival of the Fittest should be our national policy!!!!

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I've answered this already.

    This outsourcing happened in the 80s and 90s mainly, AFTER UNIONS WERE WEAKEND ... and after neo-liberal policies ... So obviously its not the unions fault, since those things happened post union decline ....
    the union decline in the textile and shipbuilding industires was because those jobs no longer existed---the union destroyed those jobs by making those industries unprofitable in the USA.
    "Just get the hell out of my way" John Galt to the government in Atlas Shrugged.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It's the CEO's company. No one else's. It really is as simple as that.

    Lets put it this way. Lets say that you hired a mechanic to fix your car. They give you a fixed amount of how much the job will cost. Part cost and hourly cost. What would you do if half way through the job the mechanic told you that he wouldn't finish fixing your car unless you agreed to pay him 30% more? Same amount of work to be done, nothing new added beyond that of him simply wanting more money for the job.
    This I fundamentally don't buy. A company is more than the owner. In fact the companies success depends as much or more on the employees than ti does the owner. The larger the company the more this is true.

    And it's not half way through the job. Instead, there are scheduled times when they negotiate, which would be like the next time I took the car in. The mechanic, as happens, would inform me of the need to raise prices, and I would weight that against my needs and begin a negotiation (and yes, it is possible to negotiate).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Interesting story... kinda blows away the arguments from all the lovers of walmart and wall street:

    Story has been truncated. Whole story at link


    How Costco Became the Anti-Wal-Mart

    But not everyone is happy with Costco's business strategy. Some Wall Street analysts assert that Mr. Sinegal is overly generous not only to Costco's customers but to its workers as well.

    Mr. Sinegal begs to differ. He rejects Wall Street's assumption that to succeed in discount retailing, companies must pay poorly and skimp on benefits, or must ratchet up prices to meet Wall Street's profit demands.

    Good wages and benefits are why Costco has extremely low rates of turnover and theft by employees, he said. And Costco's customers, who are more affluent than other warehouse store shoppers, stay loyal because they like that low prices do not come at the workers' expense. "This is not altruistic," he said. "This is good business."

    He also dismisses calls to increase Costco's product markups. Mr. Sinegal, who has been in the retailing business for more than a half-century, said that heeding Wall Street's advice to raise some prices would bring Costco's downfall.

    With his ferocious attention to detail and price, Mr. Sinegal has made Costco the nation's leading warehouse retailer, with about half of the market, compared with 40 percent for the No. 2, Sam's Club. But Sam's is not a typical runner-up: it is part of the Wal-Mart empire, which, with $288 billion in sales last year, dwarfs Costco.

    Despite Costco's impressive record, Mr. Sinegal's salary is just $350,000, although he also received a $200,000 bonus last year. That puts him at less than 10 percent of many other chief executives, though Costco ranks 29th in revenue among all American companies.

    "I've been very well rewarded," said Mr. Sinegal, who is worth more than $150 million thanks to his Costco stock holdings. "I just think that if you're going to try to run an organization that's very cost-conscious, then you can't have those disparities. Having an individual who is making 100 or 200 or 300 times more than the average person working on the floor is wrong."

    This knack for seeing things in a new way also explains Costco's approach to retaining employees as well as shoppers. Besides paying considerably more than competitors, for example, Costco contributes generously to its workers' 401(k) plans, starting with 3 percent of salary the second year and rising to 9 percent after 25 years.

    ITS insurance plans absorb most dental expenses, and part-time workers are eligible for health insurance after just six months on the job, compared with two years at Wal-Mart. Eighty-five percent of Costco's workers have health insurance, compared with less than half at Wal-Mart and Target.

    Costco also has not shut out unions, as some of its rivals have. The Teamsters union, for example, represents 14,000 of Costco's 113,000 employees. "They gave us the best agreement of any retailer in the country," said Rome Aloise, the union's chief negotiator with Costco. The contract guarantees employees at least 25 hours of work a week, he said, and requires that at least half of a store's workers be full time.


    Sesnsible strategy.
    Paying employees much better.
    Much better employee benefits.
    Engaging in business WITH unions and is the #1 buisness in his field.

    Yeah.... **** wall street and the GOP sheeps' nonstop mantra of how business should be gutting the working class to compete with third world slave labor.
    Last edited by poweRob; 11-27-12 at 11:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  9. #829
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. The shift to a globalized information-driven economy has not really effected the shelf stocker job. It has massively effected the CEO job. Both are paid according to their value added, and one just happens to have what this economy will leverage far more.
    Lets be clear, as we do tend to talk apples and oranges when we talk. We're not talking just stock persons. The comment referred to work force, below the CEO. This includes many who work in the information-driven economy, effected profoundly by it, who are still lagging light years behind the CEO. There is no logical rationale for this gap. Now, any business is free to be illogical and throw their money away as much as they want. And we've seen more than one do so only to see their companies fail, and the CEO leaving with a bundle.


    If knowledge workers were overrated, then they would not be getting paid the way they are en masse. Though it is interesting that you think that you have greater subject matter expertise and knowledge than the combined knowledge of millions of directly-involved decision makers.
    Nonsense. First, Knowledge workers as a term includes more than CEOs. You're not trying to sneak something past are you? Second, what someone is paid is not necessarily related to any objective measure of worth. Certainly the CEO who badly managed his company and lost it can't be actually worth much.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    CEO compensation is determined by their market value. Why is Messi (or any highly paid athlete) paid so many millions a year? Because he can do something that most people can't. There are only a few people in the world that can compete on his level. He consistently provides results. You can't say that putting some guy off the street in his spot would produce similar results.

    CEO's are no different. The quality of the CEO is the single most important factor to a business's success. Not just anybody can be a successful CEO, or they would, and CEO's wouldn't be paid dick.
    Again I don't buy that. And while they might be able to justify higher pay, which is not the being argued, 671 times the average worker salary is not in any way market value in any reasonable sense.

    And no, it is false that the CEO is the single most important factor to a businesses success. That any have gotten that myth to spread is a sign of how easy it is to sell something to a willing audience. The military used to say that they were only as strong as their weakest private. Such is the case in business as well. Those on the front lines so to speak make or break the company. Overwhelmingly, they are the company.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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