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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #1501
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    They have to go through austerity because their social programs spent all their money.....

    And you chose to move out of the U.S.
    A: there are other ways to deal with the problem.
    B: They've had social programs for decades and infact cut them, the problem was the financial crash not the social programs.
    D: Yeah I chose to move out of the US ... Which doesn't say anthing to the point I was making that just the ability to move jobs doesn't make them any less tyrannical.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    So you would put the number and quality of inventions of European Union in the last 80 years next to those of the United States?
    I would bet more since the 1960s (the EU hasn't been around for 80 years), but I have no idea ...but that is'nt what I said ... its a strawman, I said it came out of the PUBLIC SECTOR, the NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR.

    Asia is doing it better, and more sustain-ably. Venezuela will be right back where they started when their oil exports run out.
    Asia is a big continent with different policies, but the improvement isn't as shart, nor can it be put on a policy, instead its basically just huge capital investment, also Asia will be back where it was when it stops being the world's sweatshop.

    As far as Oil exports, we'll have to wait and see, but I wan'st JUST talking about venezeula.

    This was a problem long before 2007. It would've been a problem without the recession. The recession just made it worse because recent college grads were usually the first ones to be fired.

    You can see a steady inverse relationship between the rising cost of college, and the falling value of a general college degree over the last 30 years. We need to seriously "ReformCollege." Too many of the general introductory classes would be better done as a low cost online certification, rather than an actual degree. That would fulfill the basic requirement of allowing college to educate people and introduce themselves to different things in the world; meanwhile keeping the current, more expensive, college structure for smaller class sizes, and more intense learning. There is absolutely no reason why I should be required to sign up for an 500 person introductory course, and pay $750 to fill out three scantron tests.

    As far as liberal arts degrees, my personal opinion is that its good to take a few select liberal arts courses sporadically to cultural myself and force myself to think and see things I otherwise wouldn't have. But I'm still getting a degree to get a job, if we are going to sell college as a vessel for class mobility, and it is going to be priced as such, then the degree needs to get you a job and it needs to pay itself off.
    Well the huge unemployment came after 2007, the giant rise in poverty came after 2007, the giant wealth gaps came afte 2007, and so on.

    I agree we should reform university, but thats neither here nor there, for this discussion.

    That's why capitalism is doubling the size of the global middle class by 2030.... right?

    Captialism isn't failing. The United States economy is still weak, but we are not on the verge of collapse like the European Union is. You claim all of these wonderful social programs that Europe has, yet fail to state that many countries in Europe are moving in the opposite direction. Sweden is moving towards more capitalism. Germany made cuts to its social programs in the early 2000's, and is more of a Keynesian Capitalist economy rather than a socialist one. Greece didn't, and they are imploding. France won't, and they are expected to be the next Greece.

    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -- Winston Churchill
    I don't think capitalism will double the size of the middle class by 2030, other than perhaps countries that are lagging behind joining glocal capitalism.

    Capitalism DID fail in the 30s and in 2007, the ONLY thing that saved it was giant giant governement bailouts and spending ... both times. As far as the EU, what is on the verge of collapse is the single monitary base with different fiscal policies, which is basically a kind of gold standard.

    Sweden isn't moving toward capitalism perse, it did somewhat in the 90s, but its learning its lesson from thant, Germany made cuts but kept the major institutions that were what made it socialist (as did sweeden), Greece privitized their financial industry ... thats much more a move toward capitalism than cutting some social programs.

    Socialism is not tax and welfare, it isn't social programs, its democratic instituions, co-determination, strong unions, public industries and so on.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Really? You are so full of yourself that you actually believe that "most" anyone follows your line of thinking?

    that's a good one.
    Most socialists yeah .... in my experience.

    Maybe that is because in your attempt to twist words, you actually misname what it is you actually are. I believe it is an anarcho-communist.
    Whatever ...

    How magnanimous of you. Look, people like their representative republic just fine. What makes you think that the country wants to scrap that?
    I never said they did ... representative republic is a political system, I'm talking about the economic sector.

    With your views expressed so far, where is the wealth going to come from?
    There is plenty of wealth around ... all the natural resources, all the capital, tons of it just laying doing nothing, and so on.

    Name a couple you think the US could model after and make work....
    I would say the co-determination laws in scandanavia and Germany would work extremely well here in the US, I would say nationalizing the major Oil/Energy companies like in Norway and Venezuela and Bolivia and so on, I'd say having a publically accountable bank like in Norway would do well, I'd say having more cooperatives such as in Denmark and Northern Italy, and corporate law that makes it more favorable to cooperatives (right not its much more favorable to private corporations), oh and step 1 Public healthcare.

    Well, I'll give it to ya, it is systematic. But since the entire ed system is run, and organized by progressive dolts I'll stick with my assessment thanks.
    yeah ... Progressives like TiM Geithner, Larry Summers, Jeff Immelt, Robert Rubin, common ... be serious.

    When you actually understand how business works, get back to me.
    Not really a response to anything, it seams to me that you have none.

    Am I reading this right? You think the USSR was too capitalist?
    They followed the capitalist mode of production, only replacing the capitalist with state commisars.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I would bet more since the 1960s (the EU hasn't been around for 80 years), but I have no idea ...but that is'nt what I said ... its a strawman, I said it came out of the PUBLIC SECTOR, the NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR.
    Is Apple a public sector company? How about Microsoft?

    How about all the pharmaceutical companies in MY country, that YOUR country relies on for health care?


    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Asia is a big continent with different policies, but the improvement isn't as shart, nor can it be put on a policy, instead its basically just huge capital investment, also Asia will be back where it was when it stops being the world's sweatshop.
    Hmmm.... no
    but nice try. Factories provide infrastructure

    They are actually starting to develop their own industries, their own consumer base, so forth
    Lifting people out of poverty based strictly on a country's supply of non-renewable resources
    Asia is booming, and will be the dominant force for the next decade. Western Civilization as we know it, will be taking a back seat.... I can promise you that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    As far as Oil exports, we'll have to wait and see, but I wan'st JUST talking about venezeula.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Well the huge unemployment came after 2007, the giant rise in poverty came after 2007, the giant wealth gaps came afte 2007, and so on.
    Its called a recession. Every single one of your "wonderful socialist europe" countries are still feeling it. Recessions are natural, regardless of the dominant economic system.

    And actually, you are dead wrong. The recession actually destroyed more wealth as a % of the top 20th percentile more so than any other percentile in the country. So no..... the gap in wealth actually dropped.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I don't think capitalism will double the size of the middle class by 2030, other than perhaps countries that are lagging behind joining glocal capitalism.
    Well, allow me to enlighten you

    An emerging middle class - OECD Observer

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Capitalism DID fail in the 30s and in 2007, the ONLY thing that saved it was giant giant governement bailouts and spending ... both times. As far as the EU, what is on the verge of collapse is the single monitary base with different fiscal policies, which is basically a kind of gold standard.
    What failed in the 1930s were the banks. What failed in the 1930s was global trade (due to protectionism, which is NOT capitalism). Had the money supply not contracted so dramatically, and had we not put up such severe trade laws, the depression would've been over in 3-4 years. What saved capitalism in the 1930s was NOT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. It was us resuming global free trade by producing war supplies. It may have been government run, but thats not what is important. What is important.. was global trade reinflated aggregate demand. Trade is essential in capitalism.... so saying that capitalism almost failed without trade has nothing to do with flaws in capitalism and everything to do with how important free trade is.

    Capitalism did not fail in 2007.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Sweden isn't moving toward capitalism perse, it did somewhat in the 90s, but its learning its lesson from thant, Germany made cuts but kept the major institutions that were what made it socialist (as did sweeden), Greece privitized their financial industry ... thats much more a move toward capitalism than cutting some social programs.
    Socialism is not tax and welfare, it isn't social programs, its democratic instituions, co-determination, strong unions, public industries and so on.
    Well if socialism isn't tax and welfare.... then what category does tax and welfare come from? It certainly isn't a part of capitalism.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I don't think you understand what I am saying. Third parties, by definition, subtract wealth from the healthcare system. Whatever services are provided by the healthcare industry, doctors could provide them at a cheaper cost without the cost of regulation, extra staff for paperwork, overhead profits, etc. etc.

    Its easy to mix up what it currently costs to be uninsured, with what it would cost if there were no insurance. Being uninsured now... doctors still have to pay their extra paperwork staff the same amount, regardless of whether or not YOU specifically have health insurance. Plus... current prices are based in part on the % of premiums doctors recieve from the health insurance company for certain services... so if you are uninsured, you are pretty much picking up the bill instead of insurance companies for that enormous amount of money that would've been deducted from premiums. Insurance companies + doctors alike are benefited by driving premiums up, creating an external upward pricing pressure. However, without insurance, that pricing model would disappear, and the rate you would pay would be more of a market set rate. Market set rates would not have that upward pricing pressure, and more likely would have a slight down pricing pressure.

    UHC would be an improvement, but I will always contend that if we can use a market constructed way of reducing prices + increasing the # amount of human resources (doctors, nurses etc.), then that should be step number one. Then... if every single one of the free market solutions (notice I say free market, I don't mean "let the free market work itself out," but rather I think we should use our understanding of the free market to construct solutions) don't work out, then and only then, would I say okay lets move to a UHC.
    Whether doctors could do it cheaper or not, they could not do it cheap enough to make it affordable for all. A good number of people would not be able to afford health care.

    Now, I think we agree UHC would be better than what we have now. But a lack of a third means less access overall.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #1506
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Is Apple a public sector company? How about Microsoft?

    How about all the pharmaceutical companies in MY country, that YOUR country relies on for health care?
    Apple and Microsoft got most of their research and technology from institutions like MIT and other not for profit public sector institutions, the same with pharmaceutical companies ... btw, its not just YOUR country, there are tons of countries with pharmaceutical companies ... also they arn't Americna pharmeceutical companies, they are multi-nationals, I love how you are patriotic about "American" companies, that don't give a rats ass about you or your country.

    Hmmm.... no
    but nice try. Factories provide infrastructure

    They are actually starting to develop their own industries, their own consumer base, so forth
    Lifting people out of poverty based strictly on a country's supply of non-renewable resources
    Asia is booming, and will be the dominant force for the next decade. Western Civilization as we know it, will be taking a back seat.... I can promise you that.
    Factories don't .... they rely on infastructure ... They are trying yes ... but they are still heavily dependant on the west, and they also depend on heavy government intervention.

    Latin America isn't relying on Oil ... Venezuela is profiting by it, but noy 100% relying on it, you also have to look at the other Latin American countries going left.

    As far as Asia booming ... depends where, and which ones.

    Its called a recession. Every single one of your "wonderful socialist europe" countries are still feeling it. Recessions are natural, regardless of the dominant economic system.

    And actually, you are dead wrong. The recession actually destroyed more wealth as a % of the top 20th percentile more so than any other percentile in the country. So no..... the gap in wealth actually dropped.
    Except the ones that were following intellegent socail democratic policies are not really hurting that bad, those that privitized and de-regulated are feeling it way worse. Recessions are NOT natural ... the are a part of Capitalism, pre-capitalism economic issues came from so called "acts of God" or war or non economic issues, only in capitalism does too much production or too much capital, or financialization create an economic crisis.

    The wealth gap dropped?

    2010-Census-Reveals-Income-Inequality-Gap-1947-2010.jpg

    Well, allow me to enlighten you

    An emerging middle class - OECD Observer
    Again .. we'll have to wait and see.

    What failed in the 1930s were the banks. What failed in the 1930s was global trade (due to protectionism, which is NOT capitalism). Had the money supply not contracted so dramatically, and had we not put up such severe trade laws, the depression would've been over in 3-4 years. What saved capitalism in the 1930s was NOT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. It was us resuming global free trade by producing war supplies. It may have been government run, but thats not what is important. What is important.. was global trade reinflated aggregate demand. Trade is essential in capitalism.... so saying that capitalism almost failed without trade has nothing to do with flaws in capitalism and everything to do with how important free trade is.

    Capitalism did not fail in 2007.
    The financial system failed which ended up ruining Capitalism ... Also the "protectionism" had been there the entire time, the contraction in money supply came not from the public sector by the banking sector, the severe trade laws were not just the US, the US's trade laws came in as a response from other countries. What saved capitalism WAS government intervention, gaint government spending, and a built up middle class through that governemnt spending.

    The trade was there, and that wasn't the cause since protectionism had been a part of capitalism for decades and infact was what build the great economic powers.

    What caused the crash was the growing inequality (a natural part of Capitalism), and the natural internal contradictions of Capitalism.

    Well if socialism isn't tax and welfare.... then what category does tax and welfare come from? It certainly isn't a part of capitalism.
    Its an integral part of Capitalism ... It keeps it from collapsing, I'd say its just sensible Capitalism, or friendly capitalism, but it certainly isn't socialism.

  7. #1507
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    HSA is only helpful in some cases, and not a real solution. It is virtual no real help for me. Our med costs are too large. Insurance is much better. But it does nothing t all for the major problems we face with health.
    HSA's are part of an insurance plan.

    If you're already sick/diseased/whatever, yea it's to late.
    For the rest of us, who have yet to reach that point, it's perfect.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    HSA's are part of an insurance plan.

    If you're already sick/diseased/whatever, yea it's to late.
    For the rest of us, who have yet to reach that point, it's perfect.
    Assuming you make enough money for it to matter. At the end of the day, it's a minor aid and not a solution to much of anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Assuming you make enough money for it to matter. At the end of the day, it's a minor aid and not a solution to much of anything.
    Sorry but that's just not true.
    You don't have to to have a high income to make it work.

    It works by making small contributions over time.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #1510
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sorry but that's just not true.
    You don't have to to have a high income to make it work.

    It works by making small contributions over time.
    Actually, you do. Or at least a reasonable one. My wife's $1,200 dollar a month med bill requires I be able to pay for it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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