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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So then it should be easy....Show me the numbers, or stop lying.
    You have an odd definition if the word lying. Do you really believe you'll pay a couple hundred dollars a month extra in taxes? Really?

    Of course you also have to add the employer contribution. Now do you really belief that?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have an odd definition if the word lying. Do you really believe you'll pay a couple hundred dollars a month extra in taxes? Really?

    Of course you also have to add the employer contribution. Now do you really belief that?

    $50 per week? sure....But that is beside the point....Show me the numbers to back up your claim.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    $50 per week? sure....But that is beside the point....Show me the numbers to back up your claim.
    Mostly it's sound logic. But when I get on the computer I'll link ya something. I told we could play dueling links.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Good grief Joe, why is it that having you answer a question with something other than a one line non answer is like trying to get a kid eat their veggies?

    Tell me why.....
    Actually, my daughter LOVES her veggies. I suppose I should consider myself lucky? Probably the only 3 1/2 year old that LIKES brussel sprouts...weird, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Actually, my daughter LOVES her veggies. I suppose I should consider myself lucky? Probably the only 3 1/2 year old that LIKES brussel sprouts...weird, right?

    Nah, lucky
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They have been successful largely with people who can pay. And that is doctor visits, which would not include others healthcare related services. Right now I pay $206 a month family. When it was a family of four, sounds like you'd have me paying that much just for office visits.

    Now, look at pharmaceuticals. We here drug companies can't handle paying what Canada pays for drugs. What do you think will happen absent insurance? Will that $200 a month med now be $50 a month? $25? $10?

    Again, medicine is not going to significantly cheaper. You'll just have less access.
    So the reverse of what you are proposing, is that making it more expensive will increase access? Right.....

    Now, on that $206 what are your copays like for doctor visits? The doctors I'm referring to are giving unlimited visits with no copays, no charges on tests/etc., and ACTUAL holistic care with at least 30 minutes of face to face time. 5-10 minute checkups is simply not effective medicine. Yes, they see less patents, simply because they were seeing the patents for a greater amount of time each. But before you say that is "restricting access," I'm confident more doctors would become primary care practitioners if they didn't have to deal with the enormous paperwork/financial burden of insurance companies+ malpractice insurance+ being overworked by huge numbers of patents.

    They are willing to charge that rate, because they can still make $200k after expenses just by seeing 800 patents, and don't have to hire extra people to deal with insurance paperwork/hassles.




    If you want more access to healthcare, you need more doctors. If you want more doctors, then the hammer needs to stop being dropped on those doctors.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    So the reverse of what you are proposing, is that making it more expensive will increase access? Right.....

    Now, on that $206 what are your copays like for doctor visits? The doctors I'm referring to are giving unlimited visits with no copays, no charges on tests/etc., and ACTUAL holistic care with at least 30 minutes of face to face time. 5-10 minute checkups is simply not effective medicine. Yes, they see less patents, simply because they were seeing the patents for a greater amount of time each. But before you say that is "restricting access," I'm confident more doctors would become primary care practitioners if they didn't have to deal with the enormous paperwork/financial burden of insurance companies+ malpractice insurance+ being overworked by huge numbers of patents.

    They are willing to charge that rate, because they can still make $200k after expenses just by seeing 800 patents, and don't have to hire extra people to deal with insurance paperwork/hassles.




    If you want more access to healthcare, you need more doctors. If you want more doctors, then the hammer needs to stop being dropped on those doctors.
    Even with the ten dollar copayment, still less expensive.

    And you can find doctors who send time now. How much time that is effective varies, so the time spent is not an issue at this moment, and what I'm speaking of in terms of access. Cost is what will limit.

    And no one is dropping any hammer on doctors. What limits doctors is doctors, through the AMA, who work hard to limit he number of doctors.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Even with the ten dollar copayment, still less expensive.

    And you can find doctors who send time now. How much time that is effective varies, so the time spent is not an issue at this moment, and what I'm speaking of in terms of access. Cost is what will limit.

    And no one is dropping any hammer on doctors. What limits doctors is doctors, through the AMA, who work hard to limit he number of doctors.
    So.... I'm still not getting the part where as health care becomes more expensive, it also becomes more accessable?


    That is a problem, yes. But I certainly see the point where we do not want to have a drop off in the quality of doctors by lowering the standards.

    My entire point was, insurance is extremely wasteful.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    So.... I'm still not getting the part where as health care becomes more expensive, it also becomes more accessable?


    That is a problem, yes. But I certainly see the point where we do not want to have a drop off in the quality of doctors by lowering the standards.

    My entire point was, insurance is extremely wasteful.
    I admit you seem to be moving around in a way that is hard for me to follow. So, lets back up. Technology and medical advancement moved medical care from the home to hospitals and other treatment areas. This in tandem with the need to make sure doctors were capable and qualified, and the snake oil salesmen of the past, led to greater costs. Medicine became unaffordable for many. Insurance grew out of that environment. Everything starts for a reason.

    Now, third party payers keep what s unaffordable for a majority doable for most. We mistakenly attached it to employment instead of UHC, but it as allowed more access than we would have otherwise.

    Now, if we had UHC, not only would we pay less, but access would be much better than today.

    Now, you suggested removing third party payers and suggest it would be cheaper. But you largely only addressed doctor visits which would be more expensive for the patient than insurance would be (getting less for the money as you would still need insurance for everything else).

    So I haven't followed you since you threw out HMOs with no connection I can see to anything said. Hopefully this ears things up.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I admit you seem to be moving around in a way that is hard for me to follow. So, lets back up. Technology and medical advancement moved medical care from the home to hospitals and other treatment areas. This in tandem with the need to make sure doctors were capable and qualified, and the snake oil salesmen of the past, led to greater costs. Medicine became unaffordable for many. Insurance grew out of that environment. Everything starts for a reason.

    Now, third party payers keep what s unaffordable for a majority doable for most. We mistakenly attached it to employment instead of UHC, but it as allowed more access than we would have otherwise.

    Now, if we had UHC, not only would we pay less, but access would be much better than today.

    Now, you suggested removing third party payers and suggest it would be cheaper. But you largely only addressed doctor visits which would be more expensive for the patient than insurance would be (getting less for the money as you would still need insurance for everything else).

    So I haven't followed you since you threw out HMOs with no connection I can see to anything said. Hopefully this ears things up.

    A couple of things here...

    Technology did increase cost in medical services that is true, but one of the reasons that this drove cost is that more and more people were and are relying on Hospital emergency rooms to get well care treatment, then not paying for the services rendered, pushing cost for the rest of us.

    When our kids were younger, my wife had a job that offered kasier HMO as an insurance option, which we were in. It was great! One facility, doc visit, testing, and prescriptions all within one stop, including x-ray if needed. But as great as that model was, it was expensive. So much so that the employer dropped it as a provider later on, luckly after she left....But that is my question, if you are advocating the HMO model, which I agree was damned good at taking care of our needs at the time, how do you address the prohibitive cost of that service?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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