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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Whatever you want to call me, most Socialists follow basically my line of thinking.

    Also what you're talking about is nonsense, and the same arguments against political democracy ... people vote in WHAT EFFECTS THEM, so not everyone has to voet for every single thing, and there are plenty of concrete policies that socialize the economy ... co-determination, cooperatives, public industry, public services, and so on. Also it doesn't stifle innovation ... most innnovation ALREADY comes from the not for profit sector and the public sector, nor does it retart wealth and investment, it just changes the source and incentive for investment, also it attaches wealth to actual social benefit.
    So you would put the number and quality of inventions of European Union in the last 80 years next to those of the United States?
    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    As far as grinding the wheels tell that to the social-democratic Northern Europe, or the Latin American countries that are bringing people out of poverty with social-democratic policies.

    OWS isn't an organization btw, but I support and supported them.
    Asia is doing it better, and more sustain-ably. Venezuela will be right back where they started when their oil exports run out.
    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Also the bull**** you're writing about college students getting a degree in Bolivian Basket Weaving or Womens studies ... Did ALL the young people start taking those classes after 2007? Did everyone happen to take dumb degrees just at the same tiem (by coincidence) when capitalism fell into crisis???? Or MAYBE .... Its systemic issues, and not just that people have become dumber after the recession ...
    This was a problem long before 2007. It would've been a problem without the recession. The recession just made it worse because recent college grads were usually the first ones to be fired.

    You can see a steady inverse relationship between the rising cost of college, and the falling value of a general college degree over the last 30 years. We need to seriously "ReformCollege." Too many of the general introductory classes would be better done as a low cost online certification, rather than an actual degree. That would fulfill the basic requirement of allowing college to educate people and introduce themselves to different things in the world; meanwhile keeping the current, more expensive, college structure for smaller class sizes, and more intense learning. There is absolutely no reason why I should be required to sign up for an 500 person introductory course, and pay $750 to fill out three scantron tests.

    As far as liberal arts degrees, my personal opinion is that its good to take a few select liberal arts courses sporadically to cultural myself and force myself to think and see things I otherwise wouldn't have. But I'm still getting a degree to get a job, if we are going to sell college as a vessel for class mobility, and it is going to be priced as such, then the degree needs to get you a job and it needs to pay itself off.
    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    This is what cracks me up about Capitalist apologists ... CEOs pay go up 300%, corporate profit sky rockets, 15% poverty poverty grows unemployment grows the middle class shrinks .... and they all coincide with neo-liberal reforms ... yet ... the capitalist apologists will put ALL OF IT to individual merits ... i.e. Executives suddenly became smarter and better, and everyone else got dumb and lazy ... Its such a rediculous point of view.
    That's why capitalism is doubling the size of the global middle class by 2030.... right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Its akin to the Soviet Union hacks arguing that the problems in the USSR were not systemic, no, it was because the people had a petty-bourgouis attitude, or they had gotten lazy ... NO the USSR failed because of the system and Capitalism is failing BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM.
    Captialism isn't failing. The United States economy is still weak, but we are not on the verge of collapse like the European Union is. You claim all of these wonderful social programs that Europe has, yet fail to state that many countries in Europe are moving in the opposite direction. Sweden is moving towards more capitalism. Germany made cuts to its social programs in the early 2000's, and is more of a Keynesian Capitalist economy rather than a socialist one. Greece didn't, and they are imploding. France won't, and they are expected to be the next Greece.

    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -- Winston Churchill

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    You were the one who was saying that we wouldn't be able to afford healthcare without insurance?

    But either way, we spend more on public health insurance per person than any other country as well.

    Which has nothing to do with HMOs. And you're right, a single payer system would be cheaper. Which is what I'm saying. Remove or have neither insurance and UHC, and people will not afford medical care. That is also true.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which has nothing to do with HMOs. And you're right, a single payer system would be cheaper. Which is what I'm saying. Remove or have neither insurance and UHC, and people will not afford medical care. That is also true.
    Some primary care doctors have been able to run a no health insurance model for around $50-65 per month for a patent to have unlimited visits.

    I see don't see a reason why most non-urgent care can't run off that model. And even so, that model has been shown to reduce the likelihood of being admitted into the ER.

    Most healthcare consumption doesn't need to be insured because its just a normal purchase of (essential) consumption, the same as going to the supermarket. It's like saying, let me pay an insurance company a premium to cover a part of my weekly grocery bill. What are you insuring? In case I decide to buy an extra apple? Or I go twice in a week instead of my usual once? Primary healthcare consumption is about as routine as it gets, it doesn't fit an insurance model.
    Furthermore, the insurance model just hinders market forces from actually dictating healthcare consumption and pricing. It's how they gauge prices way up to line their own pockets.

    Now, single payer system? Yes, better. But, I still think an ACTUAL market based healthcare system without the current insurance model for consumption based healthcare would be better. Then, perhaps we could figure out what to do about the emergency based healthcare part of the system.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Whatever you want to call me, most Socialists follow basically my line of thinking.
    Really? You are so full of yourself that you actually believe that "most" anyone follows your line of thinking?

    that's a good one.

    Also what you're talking about is nonsense, and the same arguments against political democracy
    Maybe that is because in your attempt to twist words, you actually misname what it is you actually are. I believe it is an anarcho-communist.

    ...people vote in WHAT EFFECTS THEM, so not everyone has to voet for every single thing, and there are plenty of concrete policies that socialize the economy
    How magnanimous of you. Look, people like their representative republic just fine. What makes you think that the country wants to scrap that?

    co-determination, cooperatives, public industry, public services, and so on. Also it doesn't stifle innovation ... most innnovation ALREADY comes from the not for profit sector and the public sector, nor does it retart wealth and investment, it just changes the source and incentive for investment, also it attaches wealth to actual social benefit.
    With your views expressed so far, where is the wealth going to come from?

    As far as grinding the wheels tell that to the social-democratic Northern Europe, or the Latin American countries that are bringing people out of poverty with social-democratic policies.
    Name a couple you think the US could model after and make work....

    OWS isn't an organization btw, but I support and supported them.
    Oh, I *up twinkles* that.... What a joke.

    Also the bull**** you're writing about college students getting a degree in Bolivian Basket Weaving or Womens studies ... Did ALL the young people start taking those classes after 2007? Did everyone happen to take dumb degrees just at the same tiem (by coincidence) when capitalism fell into crisis???? Or MAYBE .... Its systemic issues, and not just that people have become dumber after the recession ...
    Well, I'll give it to ya, it is systematic. But since the entire ed system is run, and organized by progressive dolts I'll stick with my assessment thanks.

    This is what cracks me up about Capitalist apologists ... CEOs pay go up 300%, corporate profit sky rockets, 15% poverty poverty grows unemployment grows the middle class shrinks .... and they all coincide with neo-liberal reforms ... yet ... the capitalist apologists will put ALL OF IT to individual merits ... i.e. Executives suddenly became smarter and better, and everyone else got dumb and lazy ... Its such a rediculous point of view.
    When you actually understand how business works, get back to me.

    Its akin to the Soviet Union hacks arguing that the problems in the USSR were not systemic, no, it was because the people had a petty-bourgouis attitude, or they had gotten lazy ... NO the USSR failed because of the system and Capitalism is failing BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM.
    Am I reading this right? You think the USSR was too capitalist?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which has nothing to do with HMOs. And you're right, a single payer system would be cheaper. Which is what I'm saying. Remove or have neither insurance and UHC, and people will not afford medical care. That is also true.
    How much do you figure out of my salary it would cost me to have this pipe dream of yours?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which has nothing to do with HMOs. And you're right, a single payer system would be cheaper. Which is what I'm saying. Remove or have neither insurance and UHC, and people will not afford medical care. That is also true.
    This goes contrary to basic economics.

    Less business = lower prices.

    In other words, we will not suddenly have no healthcare, sans insurance. There will be a period in which healthcare will cost too much, but it won't be longer than a month. What do people do when there is a product that costs too much to buy? Without credit, simply put, they don't buy it. What happens to a product that isn't purchased?

    Long story short, healthcare will reduce in cost, in order to insure it survives. A doctor didn't go to all that schooling to lose their job, and end up working at checkout in wallmart. They will lower the prices of their services, until more people CAN afford it. Everything else will follow suit. The prices of medical supplies will drop, in order to insure the doctors that order it continue to do so.


    I means, it's that, or, you must believe that a multi billion dollar a year INDUSTRY will simply vanish.

    Which one sounds more preposterous to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Some primary care doctors have been able to run a no health insurance model for around $50-65 per month for a patent to have unlimited visits.

    I see don't see a reason why most non-urgent care can't run off that model. And even so, that model has been shown to reduce the likelihood of being admitted into the ER.

    Most healthcare consumption doesn't need to be insured because its just a normal purchase of (essential) consumption, the same as going to the supermarket. It's like saying, let me pay an insurance company a premium to cover a part of my weekly grocery bill. What are you insuring? In case I decide to buy an extra apple? Or I go twice in a week instead of my usual once? Primary healthcare consumption is about as routine as it gets, it doesn't fit an insurance model.
    Furthermore, the insurance model just hinders market forces from actually dictating healthcare consumption and pricing. It's how they gauge prices way up to line their own pockets.

    Now, single payer system? Yes, better. But, I still think an ACTUAL market based healthcare system without the current insurance model for consumption based healthcare would be better. Then, perhaps we could figure out what to do about the emergency based healthcare part of the system.
    They have been successful largely with people who can pay. And that is doctor visits, which would not include others healthcare related services. Right now I pay $206 a month family. When it was a family of four, sounds like you'd have me paying that much just for office visits.

    Now, look at pharmaceuticals. We here drug companies can't handle paying what Canada pays for drugs. What do you think will happen absent insurance? Will that $200 a month med now be $50 a month? $25? $10?

    Again, medicine is not going to significantly cheaper. You'll just have less access.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How much do you figure out of my salary it would cost me to have this pipe dream of yours?
    Far less than your insurance premium.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    This goes contrary to basic economics.

    Less business = lower prices.

    In other words, we will not suddenly have no healthcare, sans insurance. There will be a period in which healthcare will cost too much, but it won't be longer than a month. What do people do when there is a product that costs too much to buy? Without credit, simply put, they don't buy it. What happens to a product that isn't purchased?

    Long story short, healthcare will reduce in cost, in order to insure it survives. A doctor didn't go to all that schooling to lose their job, and end up working at checkout in wallmart. They will lower the prices of their services, until more people CAN afford it. Everything else will follow suit. The prices of medical supplies will drop, in order to insure the doctors that order it continue to do so.


    I means, it's that, or, you must believe that a multi billion dollar a year INDUSTRY will simply vanish.

    Which one sounds more preposterous to you?
    We actually have single payer systems working around the world. They pay less and have better access. And, no, I don't believe the industry will vanish. There will be much less paper worker, less needless procedures (only the wealthy will able throw their money down the drain), and we will get more bang for the buck.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Far less than your insurance premium.

    Good grief Joe, why is it that having you answer a question with something other than a one line non answer is like trying to get a kid eat their veggies?

    Tell me why.....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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