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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In a two tiered system, those who could afford more would be able to buy more (both insurance and service). But yes, we like to pretend, both that we're a capitalist system and that without help we could all get whatever we want.
    Capitalism wouldn't be protecting insurance agencies, which we seem so eager to do. Capitalism would recognize them as wasteful, and get rid of them. The current healthcare system is not the product of free markets or perfect competition by any means.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I agree about the Democrats... Also Obamacare was a republican idea, pushed by the heratige foundation and Gingrich early on. Anyway, Before obamacare you still had a problem with cost ... also some doctars just charging wihtout using insurance doesn't take care of more costly procedures, like cancer treatment and so on.
    It was also rejected by the Republican Party as a whole. And I agree with them, it is corporate welfare to insurance companies, something Democrats are supposed to be "against."

    Those procedures would be less costly without the wasteful spending on insurance companies and malpractice insurance. Plus, because primary care and pharmaceuticals can be provided at a cheaper rate without the insurance companies, those costly procedures would be a lot less neccesary.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    But either way ... Single payer is PROVEN to work, no country with single payer ever even has people thinking of going back to a private for profit system ... But many of them also have private providers ... and I have no problem with that, but the insurance should be a public not for profit service.
    It isn't the service that is costly, it is the excessive regulations, fraud, and expensive malpractice costs of the service that is driving up costs. Single payer isn't an awful idea in my opinion, its just not as good as having the doctors running the show.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    The US does not like the idea of a single payer system for 2 reasons IMHO. First, it pulls the blanket off the idea that we are a totally capitalist system, which we are far from being but like to deny; and Second, single-payer works because the government contains wage costs and medical unions and professional groups will never be willing supporters of that.
    Lets imagine are a recently graduated doctor. You spent 8 years of your life locked in a closet studying 5-8 hours a day, to get into and through medical school, had to work 36 hour shifts for 2 years during your residency program, you have $250,000 in student debt, you see 20-30 patients a day and generally spend 3 times as much time filling out insurance forms as you do with face to face patient time, routinely are forced to deny your patents care because insurance companies don't want to pay up, and your medical malpractice insurance is over $30,000 a year. How would you feel about being labeled the problem in the system?

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Well thats the definition ...

    No, not really, you are way too vague to have any relevance with that sort of snarky answer...I am asking because when the argument is at its hight, those like you that think they know what they are talking about, tend to arrogantly tell those of us arguing against you that we don't understand what socialism is....So I asked. Not surprising that you gave an answer that in any philosophy class would earn you an "F" for uttering such a simplistic, and wrong answer.

    Webster defines Socialism as:

    1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

    2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

    b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
    See socialism defined for English-language learners
    See socialism defined for kids

    Socialism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    wiki says this....

    Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[2]

    Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And the Oxford dictionary defines it as:

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    1. Policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

    2. (in Marxist theory) A transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

    Definition of socialism - political doctrine, politics and political system (British & World English)
    Now, in any of those three definitions that I laid out for you, do you see anything in there that is the movement of the hard leftists in the democrat party, and or Obama are aspiring for? I sure do if not all of it.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Lets imagine are a recently graduated doctor. You spent 8 years of your life locked in a closet studying 5-8 hours a day, to get into and through medical school, had to work 36 hour shifts for 2 years during your residency program, you have $250,000 in student debt, you see 20-30 patients a day and generally spend 3 times as much time filling out insurance forms as you do with face to face patient time, routinely are forced to deny your patents care because insurance companies don't want to pay up, and your medical malpractice insurance is over $30,000 a year. How would you feel about being labeled the problem in the system?
    Perhaps you cannot imagine a single-payer system in which much of that out of pocket expense is shouldered by the system, therefore making your cost to get there and remain there significantly less. I can.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Perhaps you cannot imagine a single-payer system in which much of that out of pocket expense is shouldered by the system, therefore making your cost to get there and remain there significantly less. I can.
    Its not a matter of imagination, its a matter of who you are scapegoating.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Its not a matter of imagination, its a matter of who you are scapegoating.
    Free college tuition and a living stipend could be magnets for those willing to go to medical school but do not want to be stridled down with debt. Just because you are not one of them, does not mean it would not work with others. Tuition reimbursements are a big tool in getting people to do public jobs already like law and education. Not everyone is in it just for a fat paycheck.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Capitalism wouldn't be protecting insurance agencies, which we seem so eager to do. Capitalism would recognize them as wasteful, and get rid of them. The current healthcare system is not the product of free markets or perfect competition by any means.
    Insurance companies came abut in response to a problem. Without them, many would not be able to afford a lot of healthcare. The myth that everything would become affordable with them is just that, a myth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Insurance companies came abut in response to a problem. Without them, many would not be able to afford a lot of healthcare. The myth that everything would become affordable with them is just that, a myth.
    "The claim that HMO's are more 'efficient' than the fee-for-service (FFS) plans they replaced is typically based on one of two research errors," said Sullivan. "Either the study didn't take into account higher HMO administrative costs, and only looked at cuts in hospital or doctor care, or it didn't take into account factors like cherry-picking healthier patients or cost-shifting to other payers as an explanation for lower premiums."

    Claim That HMO's Save Money Is Little More Than "Folklore," Health Affairs Study Finds | Physicians for a National Health Program

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Free college tuition and a living stipend could be magnets for those willing to go to medical school but do not want to be stridled down with debt. Just because you are not one of them, does not mean it would not work with others. Tuition reimbursements are a big tool in getting people to do public jobs already like law and education. Not everyone is in it just for a fat paycheck.
    I think you are also assuming that individuals who do not want to work government jobs are just being greedy.

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