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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #1391
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Yes...it should definately be their choice.

    Wal-Mart has a pretty long history of fighting union effort. I agree though...they should be able to organize and discuss organizing without any sort of retribution by their employer. If that's the case and they would prefer not to unionize then so be it.

    Wal Mart then should have an equal right to oppose the union right? So, from what I see, the union is making a big show, and saying things like 'the employees want to unionize' when they don't. So, it isn't the workers demanding the union, but rather the union trying to force themselves in....It's a lie.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I've lived in both the United States and Norway ... running a buisiness isn't the only measure of freedom and infact applies to very few people, one of the most liberating things is not having my healthcare tied to an insurance company.
    I agree, we should eliminate health insurance all together and let patients pay doctors directly.

  3. #1393
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I suppose my point is that - a lawyer is qualified to work at Walmart but a Walmart employee is not qualified to be a lawyer...

    Working at Walmart takes no skill, no talent - no nothing! Working at Walmart isn't a career - it's an opportunity for teenagers and those in college to make a few bucks while they study and learn another skill (their eventual profession)...

    BTW, no I'm not a lawyer...... I do have a soul, lawyers generally don't have souls.
    Ha, I liked the last line. Everybody should be required to end their posts with a lighthearted joke.

    I don't think I really ever got to what I wanted to say in that last post. What I was trying to illustrate was that it shouldn't matter what profession a person picks. Anybody who works hard and is dedicated and responsible should be able to make a living wage in this country. You said Wal-Mart requires no skill. While I disagree with that, I'm sure there are plenty of other jobs that require as much or less skill than cashiers and shelf stockers.

    How about landscaping? Or secretary? Or the people who work at toll booths and parking lots? These jobs all pay much better than any position at Wal-Mart. And there are millions of people out there who would easily able to do those jobs and they can be replaced in an instant. So why does the guy mowing your lawn make so much more money that the guy ringing you up at Wal-Mart? In my opinion, the reason is that Wal-Mart is so massive and jobs there are so (relatively) easy to get, they don't mind mistreating their employees. They can save money by hiring people who will do whatever they're told and will surely quit or be fired before they can get a raise or a promotion.

    I think we all agree that it's not ok for a company to pay their employees $2 an hour. It's not ok for a company to make their employees work when they are sick. So we all agree that there need to be regulations to ensure that there is at least some degree of fairness and respect. I think that what Wal-Mart is doing should not be permissible. Like I said, anybody who works hard and is dedicated and responsible should be able to earn a decent living.

    Also, Wal-Mart does take skill, and I haven't worked there but I know it does take skill. It's very difficult to deal with rude and intolerable shoppers constantly. The job requires consistency as well. They have to have proficient people skills (it's not hard to talk to customers, but when those customers are aggressive and demanding, it is very hard and it is definitely a learned skill) and they have to be able to stand for long periods of time without breaks. A lot of Wal-Mart employees don't have these skills. They are among the 70% that quit within a year. But those who have the skills and get to know the store and the customers and the management, those people deserve more than $8 dollars an hour and bottom of the barrel benefits.

    They bad employees who get fired should have to work in a toll booth, where they will have to somehow find a way to cope with having to sit down for long periods of time. That's why it's called a toll booth, because when you work at one, it really takes a toll on you.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Power discrepancies will always exist. Sure, socialist theory attempts to eliminate them, but that is idealistic thinking and as mankind is not idealistic, it cannot happen. Human nature is for us to be competitive, we will always be competitive and since socialist ideals eliminate competitiveness, they go against basic human nature.

    What evidence do you have to present that supports your statements about class mobility and opportunities?

    How do the rich hurt society? If they kept all their wealth in liquid assets, then yes, it would be hurtful, but since they invest in capital assets which creates and upholds companies, which employee society, how is that hurtful?
    That's the same arguments the gave to defend monarchy and slavery ... Human nature is to adapt to the situation and the institutions, so obviously, people will be competative in a society that demands competativeness ... human nature is also cooperative ... it depends on the institutions.

    class mobility The "American Dream" Is Now A Myth - Business Insider, I can also find data showing its much better in social democratic countries

    Also socialism doesn't eliminate competativeness, it evens the playing feild, so you have to compete on your own merits not just through controling capital.

    More and more the rich don't invest capital assets, mroe and more they are just using their money to participate in what is called primitive accumulation in marxian terms, i.e. skimming off the top, financial investment, also "investing" is just using money to make money, its using you're capital to profit from economic activity which would happen whether or not they controlled teh capital or the community did.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    1. No they should not. Russia and China are both defined as socialist. Sorry you dont see it that way or like it but they are. Socialist totalitarian regimes, but hey, I warned you thats where socialism goes.

    2. Your entire stance is contradictary jargon. Capitalists are the ones that take the risks to make business happen. Without risk takers, there is no business. You want a capitalist system run for the benefit of the unions and workers---ok, whose money will you steal to create businesses and whats to stop government from taking it and making slaves of the workers if they feel like it? Once government can grant that sort of power, they most certainly can take away whatever they like.

    3. No. They are happening because they are not financially viable social spending. You run out of other people's money. If people open a business and work at it and make it successful, they then control more money and resources. If 4 workers get together and open a business, guess what? They are then capitalists. Your stance is demonization and rationalization of taking from others to satisfy some need you seem to have to take from those you see as rich.

    From where this conversation is going you seem to be one of those dreamer socialists that just think government can start confiscating and keep the businesses running. Government doesnt run much of anything very well for very long.

    Capitalists cant forcibly take anything from someone else, they have to earn it. They are not elected officials, they are not Kings, they earned their command of resources and money--they did not forcibly take it. You seem to see business owners as evil entities that never earn anything. They arent angels but if there is no incentive to make a business successful there wont be any businesses to confiscate anything from.
    1. Not as defined by actual socailists ... and thats from the begining, the system is by definition not socialist, since the workers have control over the means of production and the public doesn't have a say over the economy.

    2. Without the risk takers the capital would be available for the people to invest. Who's money will I steal? No one's money. Whats to stop government from making people slaves? Democracy ... i.e. what stops the government from doing it now. Also who said I want to governmetn to have th power to make people slaves?

    3. Ok so ... under social democratic policies things were ok ... then they change to policies that neo-liberals push .. and it collapses ... yet its the social democrats faults???? Nonsense.

    If for workers get together and open a buisienss they are not capitalists, because their compensation comes from labor not capital control, infact the worker/capitalist distinction isn't even valid in that situation, but if we are going to just get in a definition war, then its pointless ... you can call stuff whatever you want, its not important.

    Unions don't take from others ... but if you believe that they do ... then you have to accept that capitalists are also theives.

    Who said I want government to start confiscating stuff??? You're making strawmen.

    Capitalists do forcible take stuff ... through property, if I go on an estate and pick and apple I can get beaten up by a cop, just because some guy has a piece of paper. And if you look at the history of Capitalism, almost all of it began through violence ... so you're wrong there.

    I don't look at anyone as evil, stop making strawmen, I'm talking systemic problems, I'm not talking personal morality here ... stop making strawmen.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Define Socialism for me.
    A democratic economy.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Greece has been running 3%+ budget deficits since 1981.

    Greece only handed things over to Goldman Sachs to COVER UP the fact that their level of spending had been ridiculous for a long period of time.
    And the US has been runnign deficits too ... the problem came from.

    1. Goldman Sachs basically using Greece as a toxic asset dumping ground.
    2. joining the EU, which it had no buisiness doing.
    3. Failing to collect taxes.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I agree, we should eliminate health insurance all together and let patients pay doctors directly.
    Good luck with that, I'm suggesting a single payer system.

    Also how could you eliminate health insurance without government intervention? Btw ... you have that option now, just don't buy health insurance.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    A democratic economy.
    Not good enough. Try again.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not good enough. Try again.
    Well thats the definition ...

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