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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Sure, many people can learn how to replace a door and install it, however most have no desire to learn that trade - they want to bitch about their job stocking shelves because they feel $8.50 an hour is "unfair."

    If they want more goddamn money they can go learn something that will pay them more money and if they're too stupid to realize that then no - they're too stupid to learn how to put in a door.
    Or they can elect politicians that give them (income redistribution) subidies to make that McJob provide them a "living wage" or perhaps unionize and demand that more pay/benefits be awarded for the same work. Yes they can!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    Unionizing workers does not add value; it adds cost.

    The market does an excellent job of determining value. I understand laborers want to be paid more but, in the interests of self-preservation, they need to understand that they're just not worth more. Democrats and union leaders have played them like a fiddle but the reality is most of these companies operate on margins so thin that they couldn't possibly stay in business if labor was paid too much more.
    Well a lot of these companie we're discussing are retail companies. They only face competition from other domestic retailers. If wage rates for sandwhich makers and stockers went up sure we'd face slightly higher costs at the cash register but millions of Americans would be closer to making living wages.

    I agree...in general I prefer the market to determine values. In wages not so much. It's one thing to allow the price of steel to fluctuate on markets it's another to allow unskilled labor wages to hit rock bottom.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If they are so replaceable why should a CEO listen to even a union?
    Pro-union laws passed in the 1930's provide protections for unions and stiking workers.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Oh so its their own fault then
    To an extent, absolutely. In a truly competitive market, there will winners and losers. Whether you win or lose is entirely upon your shoulders and how you prepare to meet the challenges.

    Today, in the US, there are two factions that are preventing an open competitive market. Unions and their supporters who lobby for laws to restrict the introduction of new technologies to the market in the name of job security. This is very noticeable in the steel industry. The other faction attempts to protect current market players and works to suppress competition arising that would displace current companies, Corporate Protectionism. This is very evident in the Oil and Coal industries, among others. Although these two factions' approach motivations are different, they compliment each other.

    Whether someone rises and gains wealth from the current system is almost entirely based upon their own choices, there is a limited number that can rise. Changing the system could allow others to rise and make more from their labors/ideas than they can in the current systems. The current system only limits how much wealth they can generate from their ideas, however, they will make some wealth even in the current system if they create ideas and new products.

    While the current system may, in some ways, limit the amount of wealth an individual might gain, it does not prevent them from exercising their own initiative to rise. The only true limit upon any given individual, is the individual.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I think you're missing the part about "supply and demand."

    There will always be someone there to take an unskilled job for less than what your unions demand. You see, what unions are trying to do is create a monopoly on unskilled labor...

    BTW, it's not OK to be an unskilled worker. The reason why people go to learn a skill is to get compensated more - that's the driving force - that's the reason why people go to college or learn a trade - so they get skills that are in demand that pay more than stuffing boxes or stocking a store shelf. Remedial jobs shouldn't be careers, they should be jobs for kids in high school or college or for the elderly who want something productive to do with their time.

    Walmart pay should inspire people to learn something that is in demand - that pay should tell the individual that they need to do something with their lives -- not -- "I'm perfectly content with this stupid job but I want more money doing it."

    Yeah, I will admit Walmart has some sketchy business practices, however that should be an eye-opener to do something else.

    Remember no one is being forced to work for Walmart - there are plenty of options out there.
    No...I agree....unskilled labor should not be what any workers strives for. We're not going to return to the glory days of the 1950's when you could graduated from high school and get employed at a factory for a great salary.

    The fact is though.....retail and service are increasing the % of individual's they hire in this country. There's not demand for lawyers/doctors/accountant/brokers/programmers etc to create enough good middle class jobs. Service industry and retail either can continue not to pay well...in which case we continue to see the trends we do now with a large number of Americans fall behind the curve and fall into poverty, or there can at least be some wage increases.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    To an extent, absolutely. In a truly competitive market, there will winners and losers. Whether you win or lose is entirely upon your shoulders and how you prepare to meet the challenges.

    Today, in the US, there are two factions that are preventing an open competitive market. Unions and their supporters who lobby for laws to restrict the introduction of new technologies to the market in the name of job security. This is very noticeable in the steel industry. The other faction attempts to protect current market players and works to suppress competition arising that would displace current companies, Corporate Protectionism. This is very evident in the Oil and Coal industries, among others. Although these two factions' approach motivations are different, they compliment each other.

    Whether someone rises and gains wealth from the current system is almost entirely based upon their own choices, there is a limited number that can rise. Changing the system could allow others to rise and make more from their labors/ideas than they can in the current systems. The current system only limits how much wealth they can generate from their ideas, however, they will make some wealth even in the current system if they create ideas and new products.

    While the current system may, in some ways, limit the amount of wealth an individual might gain, it does not prevent them from exercising their own initiative to rise. The only true limit upon any given individual, is the individual.
    Even without government intervention you'll have non competative markets, and even with fully competative markets you'll have internal contradictions and externalities and tons of inconsistancies and power discrepancies.

    Neo-classical theory never takes into account market discrepencies in power.

    Also in the US you have a much worse class mobility and opportunities than in social democratic countries ... so there is something different there.

    In the system we have no the ones that get rich are not the ones that contribute most to society, they are the ones that infact do activity that HURTS society.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well a lot of these companie we're discussing are retail companies. They only face competition from other domestic retailers. If wage rates for sandwhich makers and stockers went up sure we'd face slightly higher costs at the cash register but millions of Americans would be closer to making living wages.

    I agree...in general I prefer the market to determine values. In wages not so much. It's one thing to allow the price of steel to fluctuate on markets it's another to allow unskilled labor wages to hit rock bottom.
    But you ignore the inflation factor, the biggest "tax" of all upon the low wage worker. Higher skilled workers are also paid based somewhat on that "minimum" wage (M) such as M + x, or M * x. If the wages for unskilled/semi-skilled are raised then not only what they produce goes up in cost, but all other wages for providing goods/services will as well - a vicious cycle of inflation would follow.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No...I agree....unskilled labor should not be what any workers strives for. We're not going to return to the glory days of the 1950's when you could graduated from high school and get employed at a factory for a great salary.

    The fact is though.....retail and service are increasing the % of individual's they hire in this country. There's not demand for lawyers/doctors/accountant/brokers/programmers etc to create enough good middle class jobs. Service industry and retail either can continue not to pay well...in which case we continue to see the trends we do now with a large number of Americans fall behind the curve and fall into poverty, or there can at least be some wage increases.
    So you see a retail boom?

    Well in order for that to occur we need jobs outside of retail, which are the jobs that could potentially facilitate a "retail boom."

    People need jobs, and the only way people can create a "retail boom" is if they have money to spend... Right now the job market is "depressed" to say the least...

    IMO, the only reason why - otherwise skilled individuals - are taking retail jobs is because they have no choice, they have to do something to put food on the table.

    So with that said, there is no "retail boom" there is a bunch of people willing to do anything - even outside of their trade/skill - to put food on the table.

    Hell, one of my cousins graduated with a degree in physics from MIT, you know what he does? he creates pop-up ads. The kid could work for NASA, yet he is stuck taking a remedial job...

    IMO, in this economy people will take what they can get just so they can eat.

    Retail is not a career, but where the hell else are these people supposed to work?

    This economic **** is some kinda trap..... Crying over Walmart salaries will only make the problem worse.

  9. #1339
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Or they can elect politicians that give them (income redistribution) subidies to make that McJob provide them a "living wage" or perhaps unionize and demand that more pay/benefits be awarded for the same work. Yes they can!
    And that is exactly what has happened in this last election. This country has flipped, from one of self-resilience and responsibility, to a majority of government reliance.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    And that is exactly what has happened in this last election. This country has flipped, from one of self-resilience and responsibility, to a majority of government reliance.
    Yep. The "fundamental transformation" of the USA is well underway. The current debate seems not to be about whether unskilled/semi-skilled workers should get only the minimum wage but who should ensure that they get more.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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