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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #1311
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    1. No it wasn't socialism from the begining, neither is China, and many of the first opponants of the USSR were strong socialists like Emma Goldman.

    2. revolution just means change, no socialists want the distribution to be those who actually earn it, through labor, not through property ownership.

    Capitalism is plutocratic by definition, thats like saying monarchies arn't monarchies because the king can change, also it is exclusive and growingly so, the rulers of capital are consolidating more and more, the American revolution was about political democracy.

    As for your last point that isn't an argument its just a talking point, Socialism has always been about democracy.
    1. So, since you say it isnt socialism, it isnt? You dont want socialism linked to those two collossal failures because it highlights the path socialism can go down where it robs people. Property rights arent just for the rich, they protect everyone. If you absolve them, you absolve them for everyone. Property rights allow the building of wealth.

    2. Revolution is ALWAYS about taking something from someone else and giving it to someone else. Labor is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it in a mutual exchange, its not about forcing the employer to pay all they can afford or there is no point to taking risk and being an employer.

    Its not a talking point, socialism always slides into autocratic rule, one way or another. Europe is the only example we have of it not happening and its failing as an economic system. Secondly: "Capitalism is plutocracy" isnt a talking point? Cmon. Last, the Kings didnt change via election. Consent of the governed and elections are what makes a monarchy different from a representative republic. You know this, you are just trying to get cutesy to maintain your failed logic.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    ... ok nice talking point, but the fact is when they stopped collecting taxes and handed over their finances to investment firms thats when the major crashes happened.
    LOL. They literally ran out of money to finance all the social spending. If you are going to ignore reality, hit the door.

  3. #1313
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    LOL. They literally ran out of money to finance all the social spending. If you are going to ignore reality, hit the door.
    yes ... why is that? Becaue they stopped collecting taxes and they handed over their finances to goldman sachs.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    1. So, since you say it isnt socialism, it isnt? You dont want socialism linked to those two collossal failures because it highlights the path socialism can go down where it robs people. Property rights arent just for the rich, they protect everyone. If you absolve them, you absolve them for everyone. Property rights allow the building of wealth.

    2. Revolution is ALWAYS about taking something from someone else and giving it to someone else. Labor is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it in a mutual exchange, its not about forcing the employer to pay all they can afford or there is no point to taking risk and being an employer.

    Its not a talking point, socialism always slides into autocratic rule, one way or another. Europe is the only example we have of it not happening and its failing as an economic system. Secondly: "Capitalism is plutocracy" isnt a talking point? Cmon. Last, the Kings didnt change via election. Consent of the governed and elections are what makes a monarchy different from a representative republic. You know this, you are just trying to get cutesy to maintain your failed logic.
    1. No, not since I say it isn't socialism, due to the definition of socailism ... As it ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Property rights protects those with property, property rights should be and are subservient to social concerns.

    2. I'm not gonna make a semantics argument about revolution. Labor is worth what it produces, also mutual exchange only happens within the context of the UN mutual property and capital disparencies, also its not about forcing the employer to do anything, its about changing the employer employee relationship, I'm supporting a system where it isn't up to a capitalist whether or not buisiness activity happens.

    3. Europes problems are happening to those countries that followed a neo-liberal route and abandoned socail democracy. Socialism doesn't slide into autocratic rule, LENINISM IS NOT SOCIALISM. Capitalism being a plutocracy is by definition true, who controls the resources and capital and thus power? Those with the most money, i.e. plutocracy.

    You're right the kings didn't change via-election ... so what? Neither do Capitalists.

  5. #1315
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I see ... Why arn't you rich btw? Are you just too lazy or are you too dumb?
    That's baiting, doesn't really help your argument.
    I guess you're expecting some canned response, you won't find that here.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's baiting, doesn't really help your argument.
    I guess you're expecting some canned response, you won't find that here.
    Not really, libertarians always say that outcomes in Capitalism are 100% warrented, so if you are not rich ... if must be for a personal reason.

  7. #1317
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Not really, libertarians always say that outcomes in Capitalism are 100% warrented, so if you are not rich ... if must be for a personal reason.
    Well, I don't expect everyone or anyone to be rich.
    My beliefs hinge on the most reasonable amount of freedom, for the individual, not everyone (including myself) becoming rich.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    So it's clear you don't work at Wal-Mart. I'll say - for the sake of the argument - that you're a lawyer. If 30 million Americans went through law school and passed the bar in just this year alone, would you expect lawyers to start making $8.00 an hour? Because if supply and demand determine the pay for a give occupation, the level of skill required to perform a given job is irrelevant. Building upon the supposition that lawyers are so abundant they only make $8.00 an hour, at that point it would be a better idea to work at Wal-Mart, as you'll make the same amount of money there but avoid the horrors of student loans.

    Only supply and demand matter, so you better go run and learn the most in demand skill around - graphic design and web development! You're right, cash register jobs are meant for high school kids and college dropouts. One day, you'll only have to explain to your grandchildren why you were so lazy you couldn't even go into the field of graphic design.

    What happened to "you can be anything you want to be" and what happened to going into a field that makes you happy? What about Americans like my uncle, who suffer from mental and/or physical problems that make it hard for them to find employment in many different work environments? Would you tell those people that they don't deserve to earn a comfortable living because so many other Americans can do their job? Would you tell them that they can be easily replaced?

    Here's the real question- if working at Wal-Mart is so easy, why do 70% of their employees quit within a year? I think you should simply go work there for a few months and report back. The bottom line is that working there isn't easy. The turnover rate is so high because they hire people who need jobs, take advantage of them by getting them to work hours that are too long, some of them off the clock, and only have of their employees have health care. Costco covers over 95% of their employees. Anyway, my point is that your comments seem to be pointed at backing up the claim that Wal-Mart is paying and treating their employees the way they deserve to be treated. And I think Americans deserve to make a living if they're working hard and putting in long hours. It's just the right thing to do, and it's also the right thing to do to put our economy back on track.
    I appreciate your elaborate dissent, however you're missing the point.

    Using your own analogy proves my point - there are many different types of lawyers, from criminal defense to prosecution, from litigators to property (and real estate) attorneys...

    Now, I highly doubt there are 30 million lawyers in the US - that would be roughly 10% of the entire population. I don't know exactly how many lawyers there are but I would assume around 3-5 million. Now given all the laws that are being passed on a daily basis and even crime and how our judicial system works, at some point a person will need a lawyer, weather if it is to buy a house, declare bankruptcy, get out of a traffic ticket (or a criminal case), impose a will or deal with anything that has any legal implications..

    Only 1% of the population (if that) can do that. I suppose one could represent themselves, however even lawyers hire lawyers to represent them when they find themselves in trouble.

    I suppose my point is that - a lawyer is qualified to work at Walmart but a Walmart employee is not qualified to be a lawyer...

    Working at Walmart takes no skill, no talent - no nothing! Working at Walmart isn't a career - it's an opportunity for teenagers and those in college to make a few bucks while they study and learn another skill (their eventual profession)...

    BTW, no I'm not a lawyer...... I do have a soul, lawyers generally don't have souls.

  9. #1319
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well, I don't expect everyone or anyone to be rich.
    My beliefs hinge on the most reasonable amount of freedom, for the individual, not everyone (including myself) becoming rich.
    But I thought everyone can be rich ... which means if you are not rich, it's your choice not to be rich ... or you're just lazy or dumb ... Since there are not systemic problems in capitalism you can't blame the system.

  10. #1320
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    But I thought everyone can be rich ... which means if you are not rich, it's your choice not to be rich ... or you're just lazy or dumb ... Since there are not systemic problems in capitalism you can't blame the system.
    I'm not some stereotypical libertarian, with canned responses.
    I've already said, that if you expect that, you won't find it with me.

    What you're doing is baiting and it won't work.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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