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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    1. Soviet Russia wasn'n an economic democracy ....

    2. Who was talking about monarchies??? Also since when do they need to ALLOW it?
    1. Oh so the goal posts move do they?

    2. Capitalist property rights arose after monarchies fell. Pointing back to the example you ignored, it looks like Soviet Russian property rights arose from the barrel of a gun as well. Funny how that works.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    1. Say that to a marine. Youre wrong. Its training, culture, and re-socialization hard at work. Support and funding occur AFTER bootcamp.

    2. That is socialist propaganda bull****. Dont godwin the thread with moronic statements you cant begin to support.

    3. Backpedal much? Dont try to say something is illegal then worm your way out of it by agreeing with me after you get burnt.

    5. You are ignoring that the US placed the stability model into the German legal structure because we had a lot of input into legal framework after WW2. What happened, and its a good thing, is German cultural influences on quality and stability and hard work, were adapted into the co-determination efforts to make a stronger whole. Their culture and their institutions helped shape each other. You argue that the co-determination board decides everything is too simple in nature. The co-determination process squeezes concessions from both sides and changes the labor/management dynamic. Management still controls the reins but with input from labor. Your misconcepts about how much power the co-determination process gives to labor are littered throughout this thread. You have backtracked repeatedly because you dont know jack about business process and fall back on your social institution crapola that you cant begin to prove.
    1. You can say it to a marine, and also a marine of any other country. Support and Funding CREATE bootcamp.

    2. Hitlers policies propped up the German Capitalist class, and they fully supported him, mainly because they were afraid of socialists and communists who were very powerful at the time and because hitler promised to get out of treaties that hindered buisiness, Hitler's government created huge demand giving tons of profit for capitalists, and they were able to monopolize and cartelize.

    3. I never said it was illigal did I ... I said there was legislation that prevented it, mainly through incentive structures. Also You agreed with me that co-determination is what created that buisiness enviroment.

    5. I never said co-determination board decides everything, nor have I backtracked, the workers have significant power through unions AND co-determination, co-determination came about right after ww2. But again this is not JUST Germany, its most of the countries that have social democratic institutions, btw when neo-liberal policies have success (generally followed by a crash) you say its the system, yet when social democratic policies have success its the culture????

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    1. Oh so the goal posts move do they?

    2. Capitalist property rights arose after monarchies fell. Pointing back to the example you ignored, it looks like Soviet Russian property rights arose from the barrel of a gun as well. Funny how that works.
    1. I've ALWAYS been anti-Leninist, as have most socialists ...

    2. Yeah ... capitalist property rights after monarchies fell .... Monarchies didn't "allow it," although generally they actually did in the end. Also why are you talkinga bout Soviet Russia???

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    What does boycotting Wal-Mart mean? Does it mean not shopping there? Because I don't. And I'm liberal, that doesn't mean I'm a Democrat.

    Who is going to spend their time boycotting stores? I chose my job according to what I feel good about doing. My line of work is helping people for much less money than I would get paid were I to spend my time trying to make money. I agree that the vast majority of people talk the talk but don't walk the walk. But I would caution you against thinking that anybody who says they hate Wal-Mart is a hypocrite because "they probably shop there too." Well I don't. I support local businesses, I go to farmer's markets and "ma and pa" stores, and I have no problem paying a little more for a responsible business. Even when I order pizza I call the local dude (a first generation immigrant from Italy who's pizza is awesome btw).

    I don't make much money and I can do it. Other people can, too. Asking for us to call in sick to go picket is ridiculous. I think a lot of people shop at Wal-Mart and other retail giants instead of supporting local commerce, and then try to justify it with the "it's what we all do" mentality. Well, I don't do it. Maybe more people should stop justifying how they spend their money and start paying more attention to it.
    I'm not asking you to do anything.

    You can split hairs over how you choose to identify yourself but the point is roughly half of the third most populous country in the world claims to support higher wages, better benefits, etc. for low income employees and are willing to pay more for it. "Main Street" is not disappearing because Walmart and Target are opening up.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    Wages are not set by how profitable a company is.

    They're set by market based conditions.

    A guy cutting deli meat in King Kullen's earns roughly the same as a guy cutting deli meat in Pathmark regardless of which stores is doing better.
    Which kind of contradicts the free market propoponant claim that government/unions aren't needed because higher wages come as a result of higher productivity and higher profit margins. This also flies in the face of wages at the top in companies. They have seen exponential wage increases over the past couple of decades.

    So workers can expect wage cuts, firings, benefit cuts when companies do bad but if those same companies do well they shouldn't expect any of the gains?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Which kind of contradicts the free market propoponant claim that government/unions aren't needed because higher wages come as a result of higher productivity and higher profit margins. This also flies in the face of wages at the top in companies. They have seen exponential wage increases over the past couple of decades.

    So workers can expect wage cuts, firings, benefit cuts when companies do bad but if those same companies do well they shouldn't expect any of the gains?
    Not necessarily, because increased productivity doesn't always mean the worker is doing more work.
    In manufacturing, worker productivity has continued to increase through machine assist, ergonomics and other contributing factors.

    If a company buys a machine, to increase worker productivity, why does the worker deserve more wages?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Yes, but it was a false economy. That was after WW II, basically, the US, Canada and Australia were the only countries left with their full capacity intact. Canada and Australia have very low populations and do not have the resources available in the US, so while they did ok, even well, they could not match the US.

    Once other Nations like Britain, Germany, Japan and others finished their rebuilding and were able to enter the market, the US share of the market began declining and US companies that previously dominated and had little competition worldwide now found themselves having to compete. Couple this with the decline of the US Education system, social upheavals, Government dept and regulation, reduced quality received from labor increased costs of labor and probably some more factors that are not coming to mind at the moment, it is not surprising that America has been declining, it is surprising that it has not outright failed yet. Unions transition from making needed changes in the system to just plain greed is one of the major factors in the decline. Unions today serve only two real purposes, express the greedy demands of it's members and garner as much as they can to assuage the greed of their members.
    Greed can be found in all sectors. It is not limited to unions. Both sides must deal with the issue. However, a few points. We moved to place where people really had to borrow t,o achieve the dream, a lot. Credit was taken beyond proper levels and has become the norm. This did more to create a false economy than anything else. Moving jobs overseas was not something donre out of real need, but that greed on the other side of the relationship. As I said, both sides have greed.

    Regulations, something not found is countries like China btw, often have a real reason for being. Without them the work place is often less safe, and so is the consumer. Mean h regulation should be measured in this light. Didn't Walmart lose a lot of workers at an overseas branch recently due to fire, at a place without regulations hat would have prevented the loss of life?

    Anyway, would we better to work for a lot lees and with either benefits or government healthcare?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not necessarily, because increased productivity doesn't always mean the worker is doing more work.
    In manufacturing, worker productivity has continued to increase through machine assist, ergonomics and other contributing factors.

    If a company buys a machine, to increase worker productivity, why does the worker deserve more wages?
    Deserve may not be a good word.

    When all the companies have bought all the applicable machines, all the profitable work will be being done by substantially less than all the people who need a job so they don't die.

    This is something that is happening, it is going to become a big problem pretty soon.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Deserve may not be a good word.
    Deserve is a good word.
    What else are they doing to contribute to productivity, to merit a wage increase?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    When all the companies have bought all the applicable machines, all the profitable work will be being done by substantially less than all the people who need a job so they don't die.

    This is something that is happening, it is going to become a big problem pretty soon.
    Well, we're just seeing the rise of 3D printing, which I believe will eliminate a lot of manual production jobs.
    Even developing nations can't compete with that.

    We've moved from a production economy, to a brain economy, which will change to an idea economy.
    The idea economy, is the next revolution.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Deserve is a good word.
    What else are they doing to contribute to productivity, to merit a wage increase?
    What did CEO's do to contribute to productivity to merit 300% compensation increase.

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