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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    No Jerry you are very much wrong, you get what you negotiate. Most people ask how much the job pays, very few let potential employers know their salery requirements. Most people get what they are given, not what they negotiate. Most people are paid MUCH less than they are worth and a few people are paid far more than they are worth. Most people dont know what their worth. If they did they would either work for themselves or, they would be payed much more and wouldnt need a union. I own a business Jerry and hire business men and women who are a) learning how to negotiate or b) can hold their own at the table. I dont deal with those who ask what I pay. They arent ready to be in business and would make lousy parteners. Employees are business people selling their services whether they admit that or not. You dont get what you earn, only what you negotiated. You CAN earn the right to continue to do business. If you take my lesson to heart, you will go far in business and as an employee, because you will take care to know what your market value is and how to articulate it in a concise effective fashion, and negotiate to get as much of that value as possible. I have just given you some very valuable and expensive advise that cost me several hundred thousand dollors to learn, for free. I give this advise to all my contractors, and now to you Jerry and to the good people of the Debate Politcs forum. You should thank me.

    PS This was the free version of my contractor speech.
    You're speaking my mind but you word your post as though we disagree or something

    I'm telling the protesters to STFU and go to their employer and negotiate....with their employer....not through a union rep.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're speaking my mind but you word your post as though we disagree or something

    I'm telling the protesters to STFU and go to their employer and negotiate....with their employer....not through a union rep.
    They should if they want no negotiating at all. That places 95% of the power in the hands of the employer and 5% with the employee. Another pro management.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They should if they want no negotiating at all. That places 95% of the power in the hands of the employer and 5% with the employee. Another pro management.
    Source that number.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Source that number.
    Don't have. I'm the source. What can he negotiate with?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're speaking my mind but you word your post as though we disagree or something

    I'm telling the protesters to STFU and go to their employer and negotiate....with their employer....not through a union rep.
    I was reacting to the phrase "You get paid what you are worth, not a penny more. If you want more earn it." in and of itself. IMO that is not really true. Which is why I did my rif, "You get what you negotiate.". How they negotiate is really kinda of inmaterial, because whether though themselves or through a proffesional negotiator they fail to recognize how weak their position is as a group and what they need to do to strenghten it.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    I'm not sure if there exists a good middle ground/compromise in the whole union vs. non-union discussion…

    I mean on the one hand there is the point that without some form of representation for the worker (apart from the individual worker representing themselves, which is kinda a david vs. goliath situation, to use a bible metaphor ), there ARE employers out there who will pay as little to their employees as they possibly can.
    Now, I know some people will say this is as it should be, but IMO there needs to be some form of performance reward system in any business, otherwise the employee will do the minimum possible to stay employed and then you have disgruntled employees doing crappy work for a crappy company.

    The problem is that, as I understand it, the “union solution” to this has its own negatives.
    A plus is that the union can provide stronger representation for the worker.
    A negative is that the union (depending on the setup) also represents the BAD workers, essentially rewarding bad qualities and not rewarding good qualities (this of course depends on the specifics of that union, I suppose).


    I suppose what I’m saying here is that, in my mind, the ideal situation would be something like this:
    Business/company needs employees to do X, and will pay Y for such. They will also pay Y+5 for X+5 (or something like that).
    Of course as a friend of mine has noted, if you are one of the people willing to do X+5, the people who are unwilling to do so will bitch to management about unrelated issues to try and drag you down, and depending on how the company is set up, that could cause you problems…

    But I’m digressing.

    If you work for a company which is not willing to pay a good percentage of what the work is worth (and by that I mean not the minimum the employee will accept, but what the work is ACTUALLY worth in terms of the money it makes the company), then you can either negotiate on an individual basis (not everyone is capable/willing to do this) or join/form a union which will do so on your behalf…

    Actually I’ve kinda gotten myself lost in my own post…

    **** it.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I was reacting to the phrase "You get paid what you are worth, not a penny more. If you want more earn it." in and of itself. IMO that is not really true. Which is why I did my rif, "You get what you negotiate.". How they negotiate is really kinda of inmaterial, because whether though themselves or through a proffesional negotiator they fail to recognize how weak their position is as a group and what they need to do to strenghten it.
    Well to me it sounds like you're splitting hairs because I didn't use the exact right word you would have preferred. I don't care. Have a good evening.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm not sure if there exists a good middle ground/compromise in the whole union vs. non-union discussion.
    Trade clubs, such as:


    An employer is a member just as an employee is a member, not corporation vs labor pool. Everyone wants to belong because every member is held to a higher standard. Employers can expect better trained, safer and more motivated applicants. Employees can expect fair compensation and workplace policy according to the industry standard. This is all hosted in a positive and (pardon the pun) constructive frame of reference.

    Of course, this assumes that you have a skill-set, ie "have a trade", and Wall Mart cashiering is unskilled labor. So, I guess if they won't get off their lazy asses and get an education, all they have are unions to fight for a hand-out.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-29-12 at 10:08 PM.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Trade clubs, such as:


    An employer is a member just as an employee is a member, not corporation vs labor pool. Everyone wants to belong because every member is held to a higher standard. Employers can expect better trained, safer and more motivated applicants. Employees can expect fair compensation and workplace policy according to the industry standard. This is all hosted in a positive and (pardon the pun) constructive frame of reference.

    Of course, this assumes that you have a skill-set, ie "have a trade", and Wall Mart cashiering is unskilled labor. So, I guess if they won't get off their lazy asses and get an education, all they have are unions to fight for a hand-out.
    So no such organization exists for "unskilled" labor?

    Actually, I’m kinda wondering if “unskilled labor” is a valid description…I mean any job requires SOME level of skill…You’re better at shoveling gravel than that guy over there, you have better shoveling skill…granted the difference in output may be less significant than that between a competent vs. a brilliant computer programmer, but I’d think that someone looking for 10 gravel shovelers for a construction job might still want the 10 best gravel shovelers they could find.

    Then again maybe not…
    Education.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, I not calling people thugs. I don't fight strawmen and battle with fascist conservatives.
    No apparently you arent calling people thugs, you are calling them fascists instead--thats much better.

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