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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #1021
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nice objective view you have there j.

    Who said I have to be objective? I notice you don't dispute it...
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    YOu also have different levels, such as work councils and so on, the point is, workers involved in decision making makes a difference in the way corporations are run.
    Which I could agree with, but it was your breathtakingly pro union stance of "they are part of management". They advise, they make workers opinions heard on strategy, they dont run the companies. Its a nice backpedal but try to make sure you are factual next time.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No one builds anything from the ground up, its all dependant on the institutions that they depend on and that govern how buisiness is done ... Its like saying someone that became king from being a peasant ... that doesn't justify the kingship.

    Under Capitalism .... an institution which doesn't work ...
    Only going to address two points of this mess.

    No they dont. Of course they pay an enormous amount of taxes that builds that infrastructure. The institutions would not be present without the businesses. From the first few settlers here to today its always been business paying the majority of the bills to make the infrastructure happen. The problem is government currently misuses an enormous amount of what they take in. Cronyism is rampant at every level of government. Government has entirely too much power and it shows in the way they deal with the public.

    Under Capitalism which works better than anything else we have found so far.....Keep that in mind.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    company mismanagement...putting people in charge who knew nothing of what they were doing.
    You do realize that some of those managers were union members right? Don't try separating the union from the company ****up.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    What baffles me is that people still try to find work there despite Walmart's pretty terrible reputation with employment and employee benefits.
    Yea well, most of it is a load of bs.
    Walmart has competitive benefits, in some cases better than other employers.
    Most likely better than the "mom and pops" everyone loves.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If the law is wrong I have no problem with that. People have the right to associate with whoever they want. If a law is made that makes it to where you no longer have that right then yes, it should be ignored.
    The question is: What is the law?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Who said I have to be objective? I notice you don't dispute it...
    J, it is never profitable to dance with silliness. I've tried to tell you that before. When you say something that means something, that has a real and honest point, I'd love to have a debate with you.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    What baffles me is that people still try to find work there despite Walmart's pretty terrible reputation with employment and employee benefits.
    Not very baffling at all. People with even a modicum of self-respect and self-worth will seek employment instead of living off of welfare. Not to mention that after Welfare Reforms, people were required to seek employment at times in order to keep their welfare, at least they were until Obama illegally suspended welfare reform. Welfare reform and mandated benefits, along with many other factors, killed off the hiring and advancement to full-time positions.

    Also if you are limited to low-skill, low-wage jobs, Walmart actually pays better than many other companies that hire from the same labor market. If you are a welfarist just doing the minimum to restart you welfare, then walmarts turnover rate indicates it is a good place to seek your mandated work time as you will likely spend less time having to work instead of being on welfare than at some other jobs. If you are seeking to move up, walmart really doesn't do that bad of a job of advancing valued employees. Through Family and on my own, I have come into contact or know of several people with walmart that started out at the bottom and worked their way up.

    Some of it's reputation may be deserved, but a lot of it is there because it rises from the lowest tier of labor. It is very hard for any company to wade through the chaff of the dregs of society mixed in with those who are naturally at the entry level and try to pull the valuable out of the morass. Sometimes, because there is a limit to how many they can advance, so valuable workers get lost in the mess and don't rise because there are no available positions to rise to. Walmart is not really any different than other companies that draw from the bottom of the labor pool, they are just the largest, so they get drug out for public condemnation.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  9. #1029
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    ... No they arn't ... infact when unions are stronger job security is better.
    In the case of Hostess...yes they are responsible. They KNEW that if those workers did not get back to work then Hostess would have to liquidate. Yet they didn't let thier workers go back to work and because of that they lost thier job. So yeah, those union bosses were responsible for 18,000 employee's losing thier jobs.

    I will agree that there is more job security for people with a union. Including for those that are crappy workers and should be fired. But the hassle of getting them fired is so damn onerous that it takes a lot to do it. Meanwhile that crappy worker is costing the company money.

    Oh and btw, working hard is a form of job security also as they are much less likely to fire you than a crappy worker. Especially during rough times. Indeed if you are a hard worker and follow company guidelines you will never get fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Yeah ... and kings can be voted out ... all you need is be be pope , If you're saying its a plutocracy then fine.
    This shows just how little you know of our system. Stocks are not just imaginary things. They are investments in a company. The more you have invested in a company the more you are able to have a say in what goes on in that company. If you own 51% of the shares of a company you can literally shut that company down and liquidate it. Doing this is often called a "corporate hostile takeover" because the person that was in charge gets ousted.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I didn't say that .... You're claiming that all they do is lie ... give me a specific lie and I'll give you 10 that Walmart gives to its workers to avoid unionization.
    No, I claimed that they lie like politicians. Even politicians tell the truth when it suits them to. I've also never said that the CEO of Wal-Mart never lies.

    Now...no comment on anything else I said in that post?
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    ... No they arn't ... infact when unions are stronger job security is better.
    Better for whom? The union worker? Sometimes. Society, never.

    How good of job security is there for the Hostess employees now that the company has been forced into receivership and is being sold off due to the failure of unions to work with the company? How much job security is there for the union employees in various industry when their jobs are outsourced because labor costs are too high and quality of product too low?

    Is it better for society that job security for a steal worker causes us not to adopt lighter weight, more efficient materials for construction, such as carbon fibers, carbon nano-tubes and ceramics which requires a higher skill set than those working with steal? Is it better for society that "job security" in existing technologies stops the advancement to newer technologies?

    My cousin drives for a large company. His current truck has over a million miles on it and the company wants to by newer trucks. However, his union demands that the company buy from only a union manufacturer. Is it more cost effective for the company to continue maintaining that old truck instead of buying a new one from a Union shop? The company is going to do what is most cost effective for it. From an environmental or safety standpoint, the a new truck would be better, but by forcing the company to pay higher costs for a truck built by a union, it cannot replace the older trucks at a very high rate. This may be great for the guys and gals at the union plant building the truck, but what is the cost to the rest of us because of the policy?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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