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Thread: Walmart workers demand better wages

  1. #1011
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Most people dont know this, but on the transportation and distribution side of Walmart, employees make excelent way above average wages. For instance there is a waiting list to be a semi truck driver in the Walmart fleet. Its the type of position you have to know somebody who knows somebody. It is one of the best paying driver jobs in the industry, paying typicaly above 80,000 a year when the typical driver will normaly get payed around 45-50,000 for driving more miles. I had to go to a combat zone and work 3-4 times as much to exceed their pay it is that good. That kind of pay in the industry is normaly for ultra specialized type of hauls and equipment. Not all Walmart employees want to even think about striking they got it so good. Walmart is not all cheap all the time.
    And it comes full circle. The distribution end requires a CDL, those licenses can be lost for multiple or serious traffic offenses and require licensing well above the standard, but those who went through the courses and take the time to be good at it are well compensated by the company. While there are more truckers than other specialists, they are more rare than carters and floor staff, nice example.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And it comes full circle. The distribution end requires a CDL, those licenses can be lost for multiple or serious traffic offenses and require licensing well above the standard, but those who went through the courses and take the time to be good at it are well compensated by the company. While there are more truckers than other specialists, they are more rare than carters and floor staff, nice example.
    Thanks. Its says a lot about the kind of job it is if there is a multi year waiting list for it. Talk to any Walmart driver and you will find them to have been there for quite some time. Industry turn over is like 80% or so last I checked thats low compared to the early to mid 2000's where it was 110% at one point. Walmarts driver turnover is some outragous number I think something like .5% or something to that effect. Talk about a huge difference. I dont know exactly what Walmarts over all turnover in employees is but if I remember correctly it is lower than the industry average.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You get paid what you're worth, not a penny more. If you want more, earn it.
    No Jerry you are very much wrong, you get what you negotiate. Most people ask how much the job pays, very few let potential employers know their salery requirements. Most people get what they are given, not what they negotiate. Most people are paid MUCH less than they are worth and a few people are paid far more than they are worth. Most people dont know what their worth. If they did they would either work for themselves or, they would be payed much more and wouldnt need a union. I own a business Jerry and hire business men and women who are a) learning how to negotiate or b) can hold their own at the table. I dont deal with those who ask what I pay. They arent ready to be in business and would make lousy parteners. Employees are business people selling their services whether they admit that or not. You dont get what you earn, only what you negotiated. You CAN earn the right to continue to do business. If you take my lesson to heart, you will go far in business and as an employee, because you will take care to know what your market value is and how to articulate it in a concise effective fashion, and negotiate to get as much of that value as possible. I have just given you some very valuable and expensive advise that cost me several hundred thousand dollors to learn, for free. I give this advise to all my contractors, and now to you Jerry and to the good people of the Debate Politcs forum. You should thank me.

    PS This was the free version of my contractor speech.
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  4. #1014
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Thats not what I was talking about. I was talking about the union bosses not losing thier jobs because they didn't work for Hostess even though thier employee's did. The union bosses have nothing to lose in situations like what happened with Hostess. Especially when they just do what you have done in this post. Put the blame somewhere else for those employee's losing thier jobs.
    A: The Union bosses didn't fire anyone.
    B: The UNion bosses can get voted out ... Capitalists cannot.

    They are only democratically accountable if the ones that elect them hold them accountable. But how can they hold them accountable when they are lied to? When they are so blind?
    They arn't lied too .... What are you talking about? Where do you get this Chariacture of Unions ...

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Amazing. Ok, German boards have a two tier determination system. The advisory tier has half representation from employees and half from the board of directors. On the other tier, where decisions are made, unions have representation but its not half, it varies from 10% to 40%, depending on the company.

    If you are going to present information, please know what you are talking about before you double down on wrong.
    YOu also have different levels, such as work councils and so on, the point is, workers involved in decision making makes a difference in the way corporations are run.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Of course it would be a different discussion. A discussion where your point is openly wrong instead of hidden behind the false morality that you have when you focus on inheritance. Let me ask you a question. If a person builds a company, like Wal-Mart, from the ground up...not inheriting it...do they have the right to the millions that they make? Do they have the right to dictate how much thier employee's make and not give into demands if they do not want to?
    No one builds anything from the ground up, its all dependant on the institutions that they depend on and that govern how buisiness is done ... Its like saying someone that became king from being a peasant ... that doesn't justify the kingship.

    Do you really think that it doesn't take mental labor to control the company? Do you think that there isn't mental labor involved in controlling capitol?
    Sure ... But they arn't compensating themselves for mental labor ... their mental labor is not what pays them.

    I never stated that Corporations are individual entities. The way that you have been argueing though is that there are two sides in this paradigm. The CEO (one person) and the employee's (talking as if they are one). "The CEO should give employee's more money" or "The CEO should give employee's more benefits". Not because they deserve it but because they have a right to it "because those employee's are more important than the CEO" (note that I am paraphrasing here)
    I'm not saying they CEO SHOULD do anything ... Capitalism is not a meritocracy, I'm sainy if the workers want to get better pay and benefits, and improve the workplace the best way to do that is organize.

    And yes, economics is a social activity. One that includes more than those employee's. It includes every single person alive. But like every social activity there is always those on the top, and those on the bottom. That will never change and is impossible to get rid of...even with unions.
    That was the argument against democracy for monarchy.

    The worker has no right to say what happens to the wealth he helps produce. He abrogates that by agreeing to work for someone else for a certain amount of pay. Even the companies administrators do not have that right. Only the owner does. Anyone else has to have his permission. The only way that a worker has that right is if they own the company.
    Under Capitalism .... an institution which doesn't work ...

    Also you have a "right" to what you can get.

    Lets look at it this way. Does the individual employee have to pay any other employee? Does the individual employee have to pay the manufacturing costs? Does the individual employee have to pay the electric bill? The permits? Does the individual have to worry about whether thousands of products will sell or not? Does the individual employee have to worry about negative publicity that could loose customers? Does the employee have to pay for the products that are bought wholesale? Does the grocery night stocker have to worry about making sure that the electronics section is stocked?
    Yes he does ... The money that pays for that comes partially from his labor, and he does need to worry, becuase it would cost HIM before it costs the executive.

    Also that doesn't justify anything, power being difficult to wield doesn't justify the power.

    I could go on and on with that list. But in all of them the answer is No. The employee does not have to do any of that. The only thing that the employee has to do is do the ONE job that they are assigned to. The one job in hundreds that are required of such companies like Wal-mart. The owner of the company has to make sure that all of that is accomplished. He/She normally does that by hiring other people to make sure its done. But if its constantly not then it must be brought before his/her attention so that he/she can remedy the situation. Along with remedying the situation that made that situation get all the way up to him. (just one small example of how a CEO's job includes more than just controlling capitol) A CEO has to worry and take care of the whole company, the individual worker that you are mostly talking about only has to worry about one thing.
    So why would'nt a democracy recognize that? Or is everyone else but the CEO too dumb to know people's real value?

    So, with that said...why should the employee, who again only takes care of one small detail among hundreds, have a "right" to dictate the wealth that his/her already compensated work goes towards?
    That individual doesn't have teh right to dictate anything, he has a right to participate in the decision making.

    Perhaps I didn't understand your point? Maybe you could expand on it?
    I was talking about cooperatives, and you were mentioning somethign about managers in cooperatives, that I didn't get.

    Umm...not sure of your point here. I sense sarcasm here....Are you saying that moving from one job to another in the same area is too much?
    My point is the principle is the same.

  7. #1017
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It would be interesting to read. But if the company broke a law, would you prefer the court ignore that?
    If the law is wrong I have no problem with that. People have the right to associate with whoever they want. If a law is made that makes it to where you no longer have that right then yes, it should be ignored.
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    A: The Union bosses didn't fire anyone.
    No, they are just the cause of the people being fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    B: The UNion bosses can get voted out ... Capitalists cannot.
    Actually they can. All you have to do is buy enough stock in the company and you can take it over.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    They arn't lied too .... What are you talking about? Where do you get this Chariacture of Unions ...
    So union bosses never lie huh? If you really believe that then I have the deed to the golden gate bridge to sell ya......
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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, they are just the cause of the people being fired.
    ... No they arn't ... infact when unions are stronger job security is better.

    Actually they can. All you have to do is buy enough stock in the company and you can take it over.
    Yeah ... and kings can be voted out ... all you need is be be pope , If you're saying its a plutocracy then fine.

    So union bosses never lie huh? If you really believe that then I have the deed to the golden gate bridge to sell ya......
    I didn't say that .... You're claiming that all they do is lie ... give me a specific lie and I'll give you 10 that Walmart gives to its workers to avoid unionization.

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    Re: Walmart workers demand better wages

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No one builds anything from the ground up, its all dependant on the institutions that they depend on and that govern how buisiness is done ... Its like saying someone that became king from being a peasant ... that doesn't justify the kingship.
    So if you put an item on a shelf you think that you have a right to "vote" that you get paid more than the person that invested the time and the money and the hundreds of work hours to start up a company. Do you have any idea how insane that sounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Sure ... But they arn't compensating themselves for mental labor ... their mental labor is not what pays them.
    Actually yes it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I'm not saying they CEO SHOULD do anything ... Capitalism is not a meritocracy, I'm sainy if the workers want to get better pay and benefits, and improve the workplace the best way to do that is organize.
    It is only the best way because it provides force. But it certainly is not the right and moral way to go about it.

    But you're right, you're not saying that the CEO SHOULD do something. You're whole arguement is based on the premise that the CEO HAS to do something. That the workers should have more say because they do something that a monkey can do. (stock shelves)

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    That was the argument against democracy for monarchy.
    Actually that arguement has nothing to do with democracy or monarchy or any other form political ideology. It has to do with plain simple fact and reality. There will always be someone that drives a honda and someone that drives a porsche. Not everyone can have the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Under Capitalism .... an institution which doesn't work ...
    Actually Capitalism is the one thing that has been around as long as man has. You see dictators come and go. You see democracy come and go. But capitalism has ALWAYS been around. You call yourself a socialist but what you don't understand is that socialism never ever works. It is a political ideaology that fails the moment even one person takes advantage of that system.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Also you have a "right" to what you can get.
    Sounds like a capitalistic idea right here folks. Thought you were against capitalism Rgacky3?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Yes he does ... The money that pays for that comes partially from his labor, and he does need to worry, becuase it would cost HIM before it costs the executive.
    No he doesn't. If he did then every paycheck that he got he would have to dole out money to help pay for those things. And he is already compensated for the labor he does. By being paid the money that he agreed to be paid the moment he got hired. If he thought that his labor was worth more than that initial agreement then maybe he shouldn't have agreed to that amount when he got hired.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Also that doesn't justify anything, power being difficult to wield doesn't justify the power.
    It has nothing to do with power. It has to do with ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    So why would'nt a democracy recognize that? Or is everyone else but the CEO too dumb to know people's real value?
    A democracy cannot work when running a company. Take a look at our government. The very thing that you are argueing for to run a company is done in the House and the Senate. If our government was a company it would have failed by now. People argue all the time. People have different opinions on how things should be. Things which do not need to be done is done and things which should be done are not done. THAT is democracy for you. And is why no company would ever succeed if that company was a democracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    That individual doesn't have teh right to dictate anything, he has a right to participate in the decision making.
    No actually he doesn't. Those items that he puts on a shelf are not his. The building is not his. The land is not his. The company is not his. He has no right to help decide anything that the company does. He has no more right to it than a guest in your house has a right to help you decide what carpet you should put in your living room.
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