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Thread: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

  1. #51
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The obesity problem is one that nobody really wants to address, and my suspicion, is that it is because so many people are personally effected directly or indirectly. Our obesity rates are climbing, to the point that one in three will be considered obese in just a few years. Smokers and drinkers have been marginalized into a minority, and as we all know, it's okay to penalize smokers and drinkers, because they are the exception and not the rule. If we penalize the obese, then 1/3 of the population will have to take a look at themselves as a part of the problem, and God knows, we can't have that many people claiming personal responsibility. We just want to collectively point at the smokers as the derelicts who are ruining health care.
    Unfortunately, some folks (like myself I suspect) have more than a simple addiction to cigarettes.
    I think I'm predisposed to chronic depression, nicotine has been a fabulous regulator of it.

    I tried anti depressants when I was a kid, they made me worse.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #52
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure, considering that we're deciding to charge people more based on behavior.
    Hell alcohol is pretty darn expensive, since we can't deduce who is an excessive alcohol user, from a light user, all users of alcohol, must pay like all tobacco users.
    It's only fair.

    "CDC reports excessive alcohol consumption cost the U.S. $224 billion in 2006"

    CDC Online Newsroom - Press Release: October 17, 2011
    You didn't answer the meat question. Presumably you would agree that all meat eaters should also be charged higher premiums. Let's also not forget coffee, low fiber diets, french fries, cosmetics, use of plastic bottles, etc., etc., etc.

    Incidentally, how would you enforce the alcohol/meat/coffee/cosmetics/plastic bottles/low fiber premiums? Random screening? Surprise inspections?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  3. #53
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You didn't answer the meat question. Presumably you would agree that all meat eaters should also be charged higher premiums. Let's also not forget coffee, low fiber diets, french fries, cosmetics, use of plastic bottles, etc., etc., etc.

    Incidentally, how would you enforce the alcohol/meat/coffee/cosmetics/plastic bottles/low fiber premiums? Random screening? Surprise inspections?
    I said sure.
    Logically, if we're going to charge higher rates for one "bad" behavior/situation, we should do it for all others.

    Self reporting and if people lie, they should not be covered, if a condition develops based on the lied about behavior/situation.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #54
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Self reporting and if people lie, they should not be covered, if a condition develops based on the lied about behavior/situation.
    Sometimes people just get cancer. It's not because of what they necessarily do. It's going to be VERY hard to pinpoint it to ONE behavior.

    It's easier for smokers because there are tell tale signs of a smoker that they cannot hide, black lung etc.

    How are you going to pinpoint someones cancer to say Diet Soda versus just getting cancer?

  5. #55
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sometimes people just get cancer. It's not because of what they necessarily do. It's going to be VERY hard to pinpoint it to ONE behavior.

    It's easier for smokers because there are tell tale signs of a smoker that they cannot hide, black lung etc.

    How are you going to pinpoint someones cancer to say Diet Soda versus just getting cancer?
    How do we know that all cases of lung cancer in smokers, is because they smoked?
    It's merely a jumping of conclusions.

    My wife's grandfather got throat cancer, he smoked all his life.
    The doctor said it was like a result of his acid reflux.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #56
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sometimes people just get cancer. It's not because of what they necessarily do. It's going to be VERY hard to pinpoint it to ONE behavior.

    It's easier for smokers because there are tell tale signs of a smoker that they cannot hide, black lung etc.

    How are you going to pinpoint someones cancer to say Diet Soda versus just getting cancer?
    You can also detect nicotine in the bloodstream when you have your physical, which makes it easier to underwrite. I wonder what the policy is with electronic cigarettes? You still get nicotine, which would show up blood tests, but you don't get all of the carcinogens and fewer of the cardiovascular problems (carbon monoxide).
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  7. #57
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How do we know that all cases of lung cancer in smokers, is because they smoked?
    It's merely a jumping of conclusions.

    My wife's grandfather got throat cancer, he smoked all his life.
    The doctor said it was like a result of his acid reflux.
    Insurance is based on probability. AFAIK the only cancer that can be attributed to a particular cause with reliability is mesothelioma, which is caused by asbestos. But even then, there's the rare case where no exposure can be shown.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #58
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Insurance is based on probability. AFAIK the only cancer that can be attributed to a particular cause with reliability is mesothelioma, which is caused by asbestos. But even then, there's the rare case where no exposure can be shown.
    The point I'm making here, (no I really don't think meat eaters should have to pay more) is that jumping on the "smokers pay more band wagon", completely and totally ignores other behaviors associated with increased cancer/disease risk.
    It's wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.

    People who have diabetes that can be controlled with diet, rather than medication, don't pay more, why should I?
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 11-21-12 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Grammer/spelling
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #59
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    My wife's grandfather got throat cancer, he smoked all his life.
    The doctor said it was like a result of his acid reflux.
    And how did they pinpoint it was acid reflux, but not smoking?

  10. #60
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    Re: Federal government releases long-awaited health reform rules

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And how did they pinpoint it was acid reflux, but not smoking?
    The hell if I know.
    It may have been the change in the lining of his throat.

    This story gives details.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0810064605.htm
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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