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Thread: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't know, I've seen them simply change a word or two and reissue the same exact policy before. I guess what I'm getting at is that if they want to flip off the court they'll figure out a way to do it.
    I really do understand that perspective, but if you actually know the law, it's generally less accurate than what you're suggesting. There absolutely are exceptions, but in general, congress really can't get away with insanity for very long unless it's got SCOTUS backing (somehow).

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I really do understand that perspective, but if you actually know the law, it's generally less accurate than what you're suggesting. There absolutely are exceptions, but in general, congress really can't get away with insanity for very long unless it's got SCOTUS backing (somehow).
    I'm not arguing that it should be harder to get around, I agree with that. I've seen this the last ten years or so and the fact that they've gotten away with ignoring courts concerns me.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm not arguing that it should be harder to get around, I agree with that. I've seen this the last ten years or so and the fact that they've gotten away with ignoring courts concerns me.
    I'm really not sure that's true. Are you talking about something specific?

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    EPA meaning the Environmental Protection Agency? Yeah, they're bound by the same fourth amendment issues as every other federal agency. So whether or not they have a right to privacy is largely irrelevant to this conversation. Whether or not they have a right to access otherwise private information is directly relevant to this conversation, and the answer is that they do not have any such right absent a warrant.
    Work e-mails are not private e-mails and we employ the EPA, hence those e-mails are public record. Well unless they're classified, but why would the EPA have classified documents?

    You may as well imply a business needs or has no business to read and would need a warrant to look at e-mails sent on the servers that they own.

    Probably not. FOIA impacts governmental communications. It has no impact whatsoever on private emails.
    Oh those e-mails most certainly are subject to FOIA....

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I'm really not sure that's true. Are you talking about something specific?
    The latest two that immediately come to mind are the handgun ban in Chicago and the oil moratorium. In both cases the "reissued" laws were a word or two changed, but the results were the same.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Work e-mails are not private e-mails and we employ the EPA, hence those e-mails are public record. Well unless they're classified, but why would the EPA have classified documents?

    You may as well imply a business needs or has no business to read and would need a warrant to look at e-mails sent on the servers that they own.
    Work emails certainly aren't private emails, but depending on what you're talking about, they're afforded basically the same fourth amendment protections.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Oh those e-mails most certainly are subject to FOIA....
    When you say "those" emails, what are you talking about?

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Work emails certainly aren't private emails, but depending on what you're talking about, they're afforded basically the same fourth amendment protections.
    In what universe are employers not allowed to monitor THEIR e-mails on THEIR servers on THEIR networks?

    Who employs the government? oh yeah - the US taxpayer!



    When you say "those" emails, what are you talking about?
    Would you rather had me use a noun?

    The EPA e-mails are subject to the FOIA.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    In what universe are employers not allowed to monitor THEIR e-mails on THEIR servers on THEIR networks?

    Who employs the government? oh yeah - the US taxpayer!





    Would you rather had me use a noun?

    The EPA e-mails are subject to the FOIA.
    I suspect that you and I are not having the same conversation. Obviously, yes, EPA emails are subject to FOIA requests. Emails by private entities really aren't, in general. So I honestly have no idea what the hell point you're trying to make at the moment.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Well, this bill certainly stinks. I just read through it. Currently, the law states they have to provide you notice within 3 days of obtaining a search warrant. The proposed changes state they can request a delay for up to a maximum of 90 days if (this is taken from the bill):
    ‘‘(2) DETERMINATION.—A court shall grant a
    request for delayed notification made under para-
    graph (1) if the court determines that there is rea-
    son to believe that notification of the existence of the
    warrant may result in—
    ‘‘(A) endangering the life or physical safety
    of an individual;
    ‘‘(B) flight from prosecution;
    ‘‘(C) destruction of or tampering with evi-
    dence;
    ‘‘(D) intimidation of potential witnesses;
    ‘‘(E) otherwise seriously jeopardizing an
    investigation or unduly delaying a trial; or
    ‘‘(F) endangering national security.
    The Bill also states they can grant 1 or more extensions for a period of up to 90 days each.

    Specifically this affects:
    SECTION 2703.—Section 2703(c) of title 18, United States Code, as redesignated by subsection (a), is amended—

    ...by striking "the contents of a wire or electronic communication, or the records or other information sought," and inserting "the records, other information, or historical geolocation information sought"
    So the Bill specifically removes e-mail communication (presumably it will be considered a record) and adds geolocation. If you are using sites like FourSquare, you better delete all your info and your account. They are going to find out where you've been hanging out.

    Yeah, this is pissing me off as bad as when I read through the Patriot Act. All law enforcement needs is an assumption that you are a threat to national security and they will track you, dig a hole for you, bury you, then leave the warrant on top of the dirt pile.

    Just for the record, I didn't have Patrick Leahy on my voting ballot, so I didn't vote for him.
    Scientific fact: If you took all of the veins from your body and laid them end to end, you would die.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    I also forgot, turn off the GPS on your cell phone if you haven't done so already. And stop using a navigation system in your car. All those are subject to tracking if this bill passes, including the historical data in those devices.
    Scientific fact: If you took all of the veins from your body and laid them end to end, you would die.

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