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Thread: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    That is not the way the Patriot Act works.... The premise of the Patriot Act is to circumvent the Bill of Rights or in other words to defunct civil liberties for those who are "suspected" terrorists.
    And when it is working wrong, then it is proper to challenge it in the courts, as has been done with so many laws and how they were applied by various organizations in our past. Just because we have the Patriot Act, doesn't make it or every part of it constitutional. The only way, atm, to take it down is to challenge it or those parts that are violating people's rights.

    But this particular bill is nowhere near the Patriot Act. As I said, I read it and understand it. The vast majority of it is about things already in place. The only questionable part is about the time in informing a person their stuff has been looked at, and that isn't necessarily guaranteed by the Constitution to begin with.
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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    If there is one take away from 100 + years of progressivism, it is that it is never overt in its insidiousness. Progressives, and progressivism tacks in small, seemingly innocuous moves that is bent on major change in the end through slight of hand, and miniature bites of freedom. Remember the truism, "You eat an elephant in a million small bites, not one big one."
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If there is one take away from 100 + years of progressivism, it is that it is never overt in its insidiousness. Progressives, and progressivism tacks in small, seemingly innocuous moves that is bent on major change in the end through slight of hand, and miniature bites of freedom. Remember the truism, "You eat an elephant in a million small bites, not one big one."
    Truisms are often misleading and have no authority.
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 11-25-12 at 01:16 PM.

  4. #114
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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And when it is working wrong, then it is proper to challenge it in the courts, as has been done with so many laws and how they were applied by various organizations in our past. Just because we have the Patriot Act, doesn't make it or every part of it constitutional. The only way, atm, to take it down is to challenge it or those parts that are violating people's rights.

    But this particular bill is nowhere near the Patriot Act. As I said, I read it and understand it. The vast majority of it is about things already in place. The only questionable part is about the time in informing a person their stuff has been looked at, and that isn't necessarily guaranteed by the Constitution to begin with.
    No this bill uses the Patriot Act as justification - hence the "slippery slope" which so many deny exists, despite the fact we have words in the English language such as "precedent."

    Look - It is obvious many US citizens regardless of political affiliation are more than willing to trade their liberty for security, and as a libertarian I find that repulsive - not only that but borderline treason...

    If the authoritarians want to search my **** they can get a Goddamn warrant and obey the Bill of Rights. I really don't appreciate the circumvention of my civil liberties. Why bother even having civil liberties or a Bill of Rights if government can just circumvent those ideas anyways? It makes the founding fathers premise moot does it not?

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    No this bill uses the Patriot Act as justification - hence the "slippery slope" which so many deny exists, despite the fact we have words in the English language such as "precedent."

    Look - It is obvious many US citizens regardless of political affiliation are more than willing to trade their liberty for security, and as a libertarian I find that repulsive - not only that but borderline treason...

    If the authoritarians want to search my **** they can get a Goddamn warrant and obey the Bill of Rights. I really don't appreciate the circumvention of my civil liberties. Why bother even having civil liberties or a Bill of Rights if government can just circumvent those ideas anyways? It makes the founding fathers premise moot does it not?
    Wow, what an assumption. Personally, I have no issue with people challenging laws that actually violate their freedoms/rights, but this one just doesn't read as if it does. I think people are reading things into this that are not there. The vast majority of this bill specifies that a warrant is required for almost all situations unless the normal exceptions to it already established by the SCOTUS can be made. Point out exactly what part of this bill would violate someone's rights, using the exact text, in context.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes you did. You said it could theoretically allow them to "microchip individuals."
    In theory they could and they probably do.

    You can bet your ass anyone who is released from GETMO has a microchip implant.

    It's only a matter of time before "common criminals" are chipped... Of course no one will have a problem with that, well not until they want to chip you but by then it will be too late.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    In theory they could and they probably do.

    You can bet your ass anyone who is released from GETMO has a microchip implant.

    It's only a matter of time before "common criminals" are chipped... Of course no one will have a problem with that, well not until they want to chip you but by then it will be too late.
    When they came to chip the criminals, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a criminal. When they came to chip the children (to protect them of course), I didn't speak up because I hadn't kids. But when these children grew up, grown used to being tracked, they came for me...
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Truisms are often misleading and have no authority.

    It must be painful in the light.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    When they came to chip the criminals, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a criminal. When they came to chip the children (to protect them of course), I didn't speak up because I hadn't kids. But when these children grew up, grown used to being tracked, they came for me...
    I love that original quote, and it's absolutely true.

    People just don't care just as long as it doesn't effect them.... They walk through their lives saying "so what there must be a good and logical reason for this." Well, that is how an authoritarian government is created - because a bunch of buffoons said "who cares."

    I don't want my kids living in a George Orwell novel (1984)...

    The ability to say "no" and preserve our liberty to do just that is what makes our country great, and it is sad to see a bunch of fools zombie walking through life and giving a rats ass about their civil rights....

    Many conservatives won't do a damn thing about it and progressives will exploit liberties...

    I wrote a paper on this several years back.......

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    Re: Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It must be painful in the light.
    not at all.

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