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Thread: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    An OP by the LA times and the NY Times, is a reliable unbiased source of anything, I don't think so.
    But, but, but. It "confirmed" what he wanted to be true about the situation.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    An OP by the LA times and the NY Times, is a reliable unbiased source of anything, I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    But, but, but. It "confirmed" what he wanted to be true about the situation.
    The NY Times and LA Times remain amongst the most respectable newspapers in the world. They have no axe to grind on matters of business. They are not forms of Political Porn like Media Matters or World Net Daily.... or imbalanced reporters such as Fox or MSNBC.

    People that ridicule the NY Times or LA Times and can not post evidence from a comparable source that would counter the argument live in an odd-space in life and not sufficiently grown-up enough to have an adult political conversation.

    Feel free to actually rebut the argument (with equivalent support for your argument) instead of showing cowardice by offering such shallow distractions as to suggest that the NY Times or LA Times are not credible to mask the fact you have no intelligent rebuttal.

    Again, the proposition on the table is that Hostess failed because it was a weak company.. and there are numerous parties at fault for that failure, including private equity, which layered tons of debt on the company, weakening its balance sheet to effect a proper turnaround.

    But, I will indulge you, as the proponderance of evidence on this matter supports my assertion, so let's try another source....

    How Workers And Management Both Caused The Demise Of Hostess - Business Insider

    The idea that this healthy company failed because of the unions is an argument set forth by persons with an anti-union agenda and perpetuated by similar parties and the ignorant.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-28-12 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The NY Times and LA Times remain amongst the most respectable newspapers in the world. They have no axe to grind on matters of business. They are not forms of Political Porn like Media Matters or World Net Daily.... or imbalanced reporters such as Fox or MSNBC.
    Bull****. The only people who actually put faith in the NYT and L.A. Times have a pre determined bias. They are typical biased rags. The New York Times and the New York Post are polar opposites of each other, they say what their side wants to hear, the L.A. Times is the west coast version of the NYT.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The idea that this healthy company failed because of the unions is an argument set forth by persons with an anti-union agenda and perpetuated by similar parties and the ignorant.
    Here you go showing your lack of understanding of economics. You first say "this healthy company" by what standard is this company healthy, it's in bankruptcy, meaning it's liabilities exceeds it's net worth and cannot pay it's bills. The union leadership shut the company down by not working with a bankrupt company to help it survive. Now if a company is so healthy as you suggest then why in the hell is it liquidating and will be leaving it's creditors holding the bag. The sell of it's assets will not cover it's liabilities, leaving creditors losing a lot of money. And the stupid union just lost 18,000 jobs. And you wonder why unions have been losing membership for decades. Because of idiot union managers.
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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Here you go showing your lack of understanding of economics. You first say "this healthy company" by what standard is this company healthy, it's in bankruptcy, meaning it's liabilities exceeds it's net worth and cannot pay it's bills. The union leadership shut the company down by not working with a bankrupt company to help it survive. Now if a company is so healthy as you suggest then why in the hell is it liquidating and will be leaving it's creditors holding the bag. The sell of it's assets will not cover it's liabilities, leaving creditors losing a lot of money. And the stupid union just lost 18,000 jobs. And you wonder why unions have been losing membership for decades. Because of idiot union managers.
    The "Vulture Capitalists" will profit handsomely from the sale of Corporate assetts. They're comparable to loan sharks when they make their Investments/loans and get excessive collateral for the money lent. Just good business. Why do you think they are referred to as Vulture (picks the bones) Capitalists?

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The "Vulture Capitalists" will profit handsomely from the sale of Corporate assetts. They're comparable to loan sharks when they make their Investments/loans and get excessive collateral for the money lent. Just good business. Why do you think they are referred to as Vulture (picks the bones) Capitalists?
    Do I really care what their called, I could care less, it's "just good business"
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The "Vulture Capitalists" will profit handsomely from the sale of Corporate assetts. They're comparable to loan sharks when they make their Investments/loans and get excessive collateral for the money lent. Just good business. Why do you think they are referred to as Vulture (picks the bones) Capitalists?
    If you think that the assets of the company will sell below market, put together a group to buy it and run it your own way. Our country allows that. For that matter, if the unions think that they could run it profitably and in the process retain those 18 K union jobs, I would guess that the courts and present management would view the offer favorably. This will not happen. Instead, some other entity, either a venture capital operation like Bain, or a foreign company will buy the assets at the highest bid.

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    If you think that the assets of the company will sell below market, put together a group to buy it and run it your own way. Our country allows that. For that matter, if the unions think that they could run it profitably and in the process retain those 18 K union jobs, I would guess that the courts and present management would view the offer favorably. This will not happen. Instead, some other entity, either a venture capital operation like Bain, or a foreign company will buy the assets at the highest bid.
    Hell, if I had the assets right now I'd buy the entire Hostess name immediately. The name has a built in sales mechanism, it's a national brand and popular, all I would need is to sew up the labor end and tweak a few things. However, people would not like what I would do, it would locate to a right to work state, retirement plans and benefits would be in house, and there would be an efficient model, no more "targeted" responsibilities, the truckers can load, the bakers can put product on pallets, or the packagers can do it. No unnecessary positions, no union contracts, but the employees would have considerations.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The NY Times and LA Times remain amongst the most respectable newspapers in the world. They have no axe to grind on matters of business. They are not forms of Political Porn like Media Matters or World Net Daily.... or imbalanced reporters such as Fox or MSNBC.

    People that ridicule the NY Times or LA Times and can not post evidence from a comparable source that would counter the argument live in an odd-space in life and not sufficiently grown-up enough to have an adult political conversation.

    Feel free to actually rebut the argument (with equivalent support for your argument) instead of showing cowardice by offering such shallow distractions as to suggest that the NY Times or LA Times are not credible to mask the fact you have no intelligent rebuttal.

    Again, the proposition on the table is that Hostess failed because it was a weak company.. and there are numerous parties at fault for that failure, including private equity, which layered tons of debt on the company, weakening its balance sheet to effect a proper turnaround.

    But, I will indulge you, as the proponderance of evidence on this matter supports my assertion, so let's try another source....

    How Workers And Management Both Caused The Demise Of Hostess - Business Insider

    The idea that this healthy company failed because of the unions is an argument set forth by persons with an anti-union agenda and perpetuated by similar parties and the ignorant.
    The same NYT that illegally leaked classified information and the same LA Times that came up with "Barack The Magic Negro"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Hell, if I had the assets right now I'd buy the entire Hostess name immediately. The name has a built in sales mechanism, it's a national brand and popular, all I would need is to sew up the labor end and tweak a few things. However, people would not like what I would do, it would locate to a right to work state, retirement plans and benefits would be in house, and there would be an efficient model, no more "targeted" responsibilities, the truckers can load, the bakers can put product on pallets, or the packagers can do it. No unnecessary positions, no union contracts, but the employees would have considerations.
    I would agree with you. The problem you would have is that as soon as you tried to do those things, and they are exactly what is needed to bring the company around, you would be facing endless lawsuits, which you would most likely lose. Boeing, tried to build a plant in a right to work state, and the union members in Seattle were able to stop it from doing so, the the union got the backing of the government. Most likely the trademarks will go to Bimba in Mexico, the plants will close, and 18,000 union members will lose their jobs. That's the part that doesn't bother me. They did it to themselves.

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