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Thread: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So they could save the whole thing with a layoff. Again, seems dumb to me to shut down the whole thing when it could happen otherwise.

    Look, the Union is dumb here, but certainly mismanagement over the last decade or more seems to me to have more to do with their problems than a Union. Why let that get in the way of a good old-fashioned DP union-bash fest.
    No the union management is the one that mismanaged the union, it is they that did not want to work with the company for them to remain competitive and a stable business. Now the dumbass union is out of work. Now tell me how stupid are they.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So you completely missed that they were in bankruptcy for being badly mismanaged? Of course you did...
    What difference does it make? The company could have continued if the union cooperated. The company had new management. But the union people dug their heels in. Ipso facto dead company.

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    No the union management is the one that mismanaged the union, it is they that did not want to work with the company for them to remain competitive and a stable business. Now the dumbass union is out of work. Now tell me how stupid are they.
    It was dumb, but they're not the reason the company's going out of business. If it was, couldn't they have just closed up and moved to a right to work for less state. But they didn't.

    It's a great excuse and it fits the righty narrative of "Unions are from the pit of Hell," but it just ain't that simple.


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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    What difference does it make? The company could have continued if the union cooperated. The company had new management. But the union people dug their heels in. Ipso facto dead company.
    It makes a huge difference. If they'd been better managed 5 years ago, they'd still be in business.


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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It was dumb, but they're not the reason the company's going out of business. If it was, couldn't they have just closed up and moved to a right to work for less state. But they didn't.
    No, actually, that would be illegal.

    And costly. They filed for liquidation because with no product being made, they had no revenues, and couldn't continue. How were they going to set up shop somewhere else?


    It's a great excuse and it fits the righty narrative of "Unions are from the pit of Hell," but it just ain't that simple.
    In this case, it pretty much is. Hostess wouldn't have needed to liquidate if the union hadn't struck. You're basically saying a bullet to the head isn't what killed an injured animal.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So they could save the whole thing with a layoff. Again, seems dumb to me to shut down the whole thing when it could happen otherwise.

    Look, the Union is dumb here, but certainly mismanagement over the last decade or more seems to me to have more to do with their problems than a Union. Why let that get in the way of a good old-fashioned DP union-bash fest.
    I sincerely doubt they could lay anybody off without getting some sort of authorization from the bankruptcy court. And they would STILL have to shut down operations to hire and train replacement workers, which Rayburn has already confirmed was outside of the realm of possibility given the available assets and the timeline.

    So I disagree with the contention that anything but a full return to work was a possibility at this juncture in the restructuring process.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It was dumb, but they're not the reason the company's going out of business. If it was, couldn't they have just closed up and moved to a right to work for less state. But they didn't.

    It's a great excuse and it fits the righty narrative of "Unions are from the pit of Hell," but it just ain't that simple.

    Here you go:

    "Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, filed for Chapter 11 protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than three years. Unlike many of its competitors, Hostess had been saddled with high pension, wage and medical costs related to its unionized workforce. The company also faced intensifying competition from larger companies such as Mondelez International, the former snack unit of Kraft Foods that makes Oreos, Chips Ahoy and Nabisco."

    Read more: Hostess going out of business; nearly 18,000 to be laid off - Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com

    Further, Texas is a Right to Work State
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It makes a huge difference. If they'd been better managed 5 years ago, they'd still be in business.
    The reason they are closed today,the reason they are requesting the authority to liquidate today is because approximately 1/2 of 1/3 of the company decided to reject an 8% cut in pay. A cut in pay the bankruptcy court orchestrated and which 1/2 of the union employees agreed to, and a cut which the business managers believed could keep the business running.

    So at this juncture, the 1/2 of 1/3 of the company, being led like sheep by their union bosses, is fully and totally responsible for the loss of 18,500 jobs. Since the new management took over in March, executives took substantial pay cuts and the restructuring process was in full swing with odds in Hostess' favor, assuming the unions cooperated with the realities of the current market. The unions chose not to, therefore Hostess is dead. They are most certainly to blame for the final shut down. And current management cannot be held to the fire to nearly the degree that the union members can and should be.

    Those are just facts.

    But yes, just like the others, go ahead and focus on what happened ten years ago as a means of avoiding placing the blame where it rightly belongs (hint: It ain't on Rayburn).
    Last edited by tessaesque; 11-16-12 at 06:27 PM.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What deserves a Doh!, is your response.

    We are talking about the here and now. This management is not to blame.
    The Union and it's members are.


    From the link in the OP.
    This particular Union wanted this to happen.

    2NEWS also spoke with Fred Frierson, a business agent for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, which represents Hostess employees.

    "If they liquidate, we feel like we could get a better deal with the new people that come in," he said. "Somebody's going to buy it. Somebody's going to pick that volume up that's out there, and we feel like we will be able to come up with a better deal than we've got now."


    From the link Maggie provided.

    Hostess said the union chose not to negotiate on the bankruptcy court-approved contract earlier this year. It said union leadership was “giving its members a false sense of hope that a buyer would purchase the company if it liquidated.”
    Hostess assesses possible liquidation as two sides trade barbs - KansasCity.com
    However you look at it, management is to blame for driving the company into a ditch such that it felt it needed to slash payroll to carry on.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    In this case, it pretty much is. Hostess wouldn't have needed to liquidate if the union hadn't struck. You're basically saying a bullet to the head isn't what killed an injured animal.
    No, I'm saying a bullet to the head isn't what killed an animal that had already been run over by a bus. The immediate cause of death, perhaps. But anything at that point was just forestalling the inevitable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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