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Thread: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    So some people are wont to blame management, pointing to the fact that Hostess products are more expensive than the competition. Is it management's fault if labor costs are high and can't be reduced because of union intransigence? Perhaps they should have moved their production to Mexico a long time ago; that would have been a smart management decision.

    It looks like Hostess was beset by two problems, higher production costs, more competition, and, no make that three problems, higher production costs, more competition, and declining appeal for low end high carb snacks. A big part of the lack of flexibility in responding to those challenges is the lack of flexibility of the union.

    I realize that many unions have shown flexibility and a willingness to work with the companies when market forces change, but apparently this union was not flexible.

    In any case, the union movement richly deserves to have the death of the Twinkie hung around its neck.
    So you completely missed that they were in bankruptcy for being badly mismanaged? Of course you did...


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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Okay, so can you explain how it's the union's fault that, over the past decade, the company lost market share, ran up mountains of debt, and produced declining sales? Is it the union's fault that the underlying business was poorly run?
    That does not say the company was poorly run, only that they were having difficulty competing in the marketplace. Knowing this everyone involved should have been more flexible and it seems almost everyone was.

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalatix View Post
    Unions are trying to get better wages for workers. You do realize, of course, that workers have become 300% as productive as they were in 1947, but have only received about a 100% wage increase since then? Workers are giving Corporations far more than they're getting in return.

    Get used to workers fighting for better wages - nationwide. Your beloved CEOs get better pay as time goes on. Workers are people, too.

    Sorry, but reality isn't what Gina Rineheart says it is.
    Don't really care what Gina thinks, but that increase in productivity has very little to do with the worker. It's mechanization and efficiencies in supply.

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalatix View Post
    Unions are trying to get better wages for workers. You do realize, of course, that workers have become 300% as productive as they were in 1947, but have only received about a 100% wage increase since then? Workers are giving Corporations far more than they're getting in return.

    Get used to workers fighting for better wages - nationwide. Your beloved CEOs get better pay as time goes on. Workers are people, too.

    Sorry, but reality isn't what Gina Rineheart says it is.
    Thats a joke post right? One: your productivity numbers are off---US productivity has risen 300% since 1970. Two---your salary numbers are way the hell off. US median wage in '47 was $2850. Im willing to bet median income isnt $5700 right now.

    Btw, is THIS: Productivity and real median family income growth, 1947-2011 | State of Working America the source for your misguided nonsense? 2 things to say if it is, efficiency is linear and unaffected by inflation and monetary changes. Wages are affected by inflation and money changes and are not linear in growth. Comparing the two as a basis for income growth is unproductive. Secondly, if you dont allow for inflation, median income is right here: Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    knock yourself out. 32k or 39k depending on which measure you use. Looks like 1000% to me. shrug

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Thats a joke post right? One: your productivity numbers are off---US productivity has risen 300% since 1970. Two---your salary numbers are way the hell off. US median wage in '47 was $2850. Im willing to bet median income isnt $5700 right now.

    Btw, is THIS: Productivity and real median family income growth, 1947-2011 | State of Working America the source for your misguided nonsense? 2 things to say if it is, efficiency is linear and unaffected by inflation and monetary changes. Wages are affected by inflation and money changes and are not linear in growth. Comparing the two as a basis for income growth is unproductive. Secondly, if you dont allow for inflation, median income is right here: Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    knock yourself out. 32k or 39k depending on which measure you use. Looks like 1000% to me. shrug
    Whatever the percentages might be, I doubt people in the western democracies are working three times harder, or 10 times harder, than they were in 1947.

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Whatever the percentages might be, I doubt people in the western democracies are working three times harder, or 10 times harder, than they were in 1947.
    I suspect much of the increase in productivity has its basis in technology.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Isn't amazing that when businesses fail it's always the workers' fault -- never management's fault for being ****ty at managing the company. The fact is that Interstate Bakeries (Hostess' parent company) has been failing for a long time due to its inability to adapt to a changing marketplace. That's not to say that the union was right in digging in its heels, but let's not ignore management's share of the blame.

    A 2003 article pointing to IBC's management problem: Interstate Half Baked

    They went bankrupt in '04 and emerged as Hostess Brands, then nearly went bankrupt again last year, before finally failing this year.
    What your suggesting is that no company should ever go into bankruptcy. And if it does it's managements fault. That is as naive as it gets. One little example, you have one union shop competing with a nonunion shop with lower wages who's going to win? You have dumbass union workers that don't want to work with management so that company can compete, so the company is forced into bankruptcy. And how stupid is the union, they are now all out of work for good. And the new buyer picking up the pieces will not be union, that you can go to the bank with. Goodby more unions shops.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I suspect much of the increase in productivity has its basis in technology.
    Of COURSE it does. Thats why efficiency is a terrible measurement of wages over time. Which is my point.

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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Looks like its over for the Twinkie? I'd laugh if Bain came in and saved the Twinkie. Think Michelle obama will promote a govt bail out?
    No, because Twinkies make kids fat.
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    re: Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

    http://bctgm.org/

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