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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead Not!
    I'm not the one who brought up clothes, that was ttwtt. You'll have to take that up with him.
    You could be right. I joined the party late, and now it's going into a 35th page. I need a play-by-play.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

    When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

    When the patient needs to see a doctor to get a cut stitched, then the patient should pay for it.

    Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.
    Well OK, but that is NOT what Obamacare is about, in fact, just the opposite is true. PPACA defines a new list of "broken mirrors" that must be provided at "no out of pocket cost", the exact opposite of your desires. To assert that a huge step in the WRONG direction, is the start of getting to the desired destination is insane. Perhaps those that see PPACA as a step towards universal, single payer or whatever utopian system that they REALLY want are the biggest morons on the face of the planet. We now have SS/Medicare and Medicaid that are fiscal disasters, even though they are "popular", basically because they cost much more that most are willing to pay into them. The current annual cost per patient in Medicare is $7,000 (and rising fast) and PPACA will add many more to that group, most of them still paying nothing or, at most, 2% to 4% of their meager incomes.

    The PPACA "reform" keeps all of the same players (medical insurance providers, employers, patients and medical care providers) and adds a few more gov't nannies to "supervise" the whole deal; which does what to make costs go down? Why were the existing gov't medical care programs, Medicare and Medicaid not swallowed up by, or included in PPACA? PPACA just adds another layer, gov't, to what we now have.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #343
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Well OK, but that is NOT what Obamacare is about, in fact, just the opposite is true. PPACA defines a new list of "broken mirrors" that must be provided at "no out of pocket cost", the exact opposite of your desires. To assert that a huge step in the WRONG direction, is the start of getting to the desired destination is insane. Perhaps those that see PPACA as a step towards universal, single payer or whatever utopian system that they REALLY want are the biggest morons on the face of the planet. We now have SS/Medicare and Medicaid that are fiscal disasters, even though they are "popular", basically because they cost much more that most are willing to pay into them. The current annual cost per patient in Medicare is $7,000 (and rising fast) and PPACA will add many more to that group, most of them still paying nothing or, at most, 2% to 4% of their meager incomes.

    The PPACA "reform" keeps all of the same players (medical insurance providers, employers, patients and medical care providers) and adds a few more gov't nannies to "supervise" the whole deal; which does what to make costs go down? Why were the existing gov't medical care programs, Medicare and Medicaid not swallowed up by, or included in PPACA? PPACA just adds another layer, gov't, to what we now have.
    Correct. Obamneycare is not going to solve the problem of medical care costs. This issue will have to be revisited, and rather soon, as it is bankrupting the nation even more surely than the increasing size and cost of the federal government is doing.

    The problem is, Congress is dysfunctional. Neither the issue of the cost of government, nor the issue of the cost of medical care, can be rationally addressed until that body decides to work together to solve the problems of the nation rather than be divided to work for the interests of the party.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".
    That's the crux, isn't it? You genuinely don't think people will pour themselves into a profession unless their livelihood is tied to it. There's no reason why it has to be. There's a lot more that we get out of our occupations than simply financial remuneration. We have pride and purpose. We have a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Everybody needs to be good at something.

    At some point (possibly already) it is not going to take the labor of the entire population to produce the goods and services to support the whole population. It is going to be entirely reasonable for a person to live comfortably from 10 hours of work a week. Decoupling labor from livelihood is going to be necessary. And the gap between rich and poor is going to have to go away, too. The system of toiling endlessly to make huge profits for a few wealthy owners cannot mesh with the future where technology renders a lot of labor obsolete.

    But the idea that people won't contribute to society unless their life and livelihood is on the line? You really think that it takes the threat of starvation to make people work for a better society? That's untrue and very sad.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I believe they will all be doing it. It's just a matter of will it show on your bill as a "5% obamacare surcharge" or will it be hiden in the price of the item you are buying. Either way, the increased cost to the consumer will be roughly the same.
    True. But that can apply to anything. I'll just let the free market fight that out themselves and make a decision on purchases by what's available and more attractive to my needs and wants.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Ummm ... there was no national healthcare then ... or social security ... or medicare ... or medicade.

    The Great Depression was the result of years of Republican policies.

    You realize those are pictures of Weimar right?
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

    When Canadians come to the US for health care, who pays for it? (Serious question)

    Do they pay for it out of pocket? Or, does their government/coverage pay for it?

    If they pay for it, that would be a damning example of their system. If their system pays for it, not so much... they're only taking advantage of a loophole and getting the best of both options. Then, the question would be, would they still use our system if it cost them as much as it costs us? Let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples. Access AND cost to the individual need to be considered.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

    Anything can be "catastropic" what you'd never believe. A fractured and displaced ankle, needing an ORIF can cost nearly 75,000. when is all said and done.

    Mind you, I do not have an extra $75,000.00 laying around, so's I am lucky I had good insurance, although there is some fuss about the remaining $700.00 that got filed wrong...that's another story, about why a single payer plan would be excellent.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzidoesit View Post
    Anything can be "catastropic" what you'd never believe. A fractured and displaced ankle, needing an ORIF can cost nearly 75,000. when is all said and done.

    Mind you, I do not have an extra $75,000.00 laying around, so's I am lucky I had good insurance, although there is some fuss about the remaining $700.00 that got filed wrong...that's another story, about why a single payer plan would be excellent.

    Why would a misfiled $700 be any better under a single payer plan? Could it be that it would be the government that picked up the waste of that rather than you having to fight it?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

    When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

    Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.
    I agree with you, but we have to be careful with these comparisons. A heart attack is not necessarily like totaling a car. A heart attack might be like the engine failing in a 1980 Ferrari Mondial after you drove it without ever changing the oil (comparison: an obese 60-year old who has eaten **** food all his life and never exercised). Will car insurance will replace the engine of your 1980 Ferrari Mondial? How about if you have wrecked countless cars in the past, had your license suspended, and visibly neglect your vehicle's maintenance needs? Are you an innocent victim of something going wrong? Should insurance come to your rescue and make sure you can drive your 1980 Ferrari for as long as is technologically possible?

    Another example: Yes the patient should pay to get a cut stitched, but if s/he has already spent their out of pocket maximum treating their inflammatory bowel disease, they end up not having to pay for even the minor things like cut-stitching. Or say a person needed a cut stitched every week for a year, that would end up all getting covered. A lot of people who are covered by some form of "insurance" or another already know on January 1st that they are going to blow past their annual out-of-pocket maximum for the year, and I've even heard some people say they wish they could just cut a check for $2,500 (or whatever theirs annual maximum is) to their insurance company and just have them cover everything for the rest of the year so that they don't have to keep track of the individual bills.

    Those who should be most protected by health insurance are the relatively young and healthy who have done all the right things but have been truly unlucky. Accident or rare illness. OTOH, perhaps heart attacks and strokes in fat 60+ year olds should not be covered by ANYTHING. Because at that point, it's not insurance. It's just financial idiocy. Really, it's just welfare at that point. Welfare of the most unaffordable kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Correct. Obamneycare is not going to solve the problem of medical care costs.
    Isn't that interesting, considering it is called the Patient Protection and AFFORDABLE CARE Act?

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