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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Costs definitely and beyond question. We can't afford to keep the system we have. Access to people who don't have coverage. The option of going to the emergency room is not access to health care.
    'Access' is rhetoric. everyone has access. No one is turned away from a doctors office, or hospital. Now ability to pay? well, that is another story, that is cost, not access. To term it as access is dishonest IMHO.

    Now, if affordability is the issue we already have safety nets in place to cover those who can't afford treatment.
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, now we know the problems with the US system are cost and access, and the problem with the Canadian system is wait times.

    A better system would be a universal coverage that requires the patient to pay a portion of the costs. Nothing is free, after all, and the patient needs an incentive to cut costs too.
    Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640
    Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".
    Hell of an argument right there. If people consider health care a "right", then why isn't food, shelter, and other physiological necessities also deemed as "rights" insofar that we should force government intervention to provide them for free or reduced cost?

    It just highlights the entitlement slippery slope America has become accustomed to. We've already let the proverbial genie so far out of the bottle that the hopes of getting it back in is impossible.

    I'm afraid for the days when it becomes normal for Americans to receive no check, but a voucher for property, food from a bread line, and directions to a hospital in an effort to provide for all at the cost of personal freedom and choice. Why have we, as a society, become so Orwellian?

  4. #334
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Food stamps and section 8 housing actually do what you guys are are talking about.
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".
    No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

    When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

    When the patient needs to see a doctor to get a cut stitched, then the patient should pay for it.

    Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  6. #336
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Hell of an argument right there. If people consider health care a "right", then why isn't food, shelter, and other physiological necessities also deemed as "rights" insofar that we should force government intervention to provide them for free or reduced cost?

    It just highlights the entitlement slippery slope America has become accustomed to. We've already let the proverbial genie so far out of the bottle that the hopes of getting it back in is impossible.

    I'm afraid for the days when it becomes normal for Americans to receive no check, but a voucher for property, food from a bread line, and directions to a hospital in an effort to provide for all at the cost of personal freedom and choice. Why have we, as a society, become so Orwellian?

    We do have a road map of what happens down this road we are on....

    images-1.jpegimages-2.jpeg
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead Not
    No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

    When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.
    This would be a legitimate argument if we were buying clothes from Tommy Hilfiger, PhD. When Paris houses the Versace School of Medicine, we can make apples and oranges comparisons between fashion and medicine.

    Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.
    For responsible people, chances are significant that by the time you actually had a car totaled to the point of needing a replacement, you'd have paid as much in insurance to buy your new car outright, possibly a few times over. This isn't true with health care, so it's not an accurate argument either. There's a reason why certain behaviors result in more expensive insurance or an outright refusal to cover. If you ask me, that is what is creating outrageous costs in health care. I'd rather punish that behavior than open the flood gates and let anyone become a doctor with cheaper, less intensive training.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Not just customers, but employees. If this jagoff is only giving up 30 hrs./week and Appleby's is offering 40 hrs./week and health insurance, I wonder where the best employees are going to go?

    Let's also not forget that the main provisions of ACA don't even go into effect until 2014, so there is no rational justification for this.
    Of course there is a rationale. The rationale is that this is just another Conservative who's frustrated that Obama won and so he's going to make a political statement.

    You can tell this is a political statement since the guy already figured out a way to get out of paying more for ObamaCare by reducing his employees' hours down to 30/week -- yet he's still adding a 5% surcharge to make people pay for ObamaCare.

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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We do have a road map of what happens down this road we are on....

    images-1.jpegimages-2.jpeg
    Ummm ... there was no national healthcare then ... or social security ... or medicare ... or medicade.

    The Great Depression was the result of years of Republican policies.

  10. #340
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    Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    This would be a legitimate argument if we were buying clothes from Tommy Hilfiger, PhD. When Paris houses the Versace School of Medicine, we can make apples and oranges comparisons between fashion and medicine.



    For responsible people, chances are significant that by the time you actually had a car totaled to the point of needing a replacement, you'd have paid as much in insurance to buy your new car outright, possibly a few times over. This isn't true with health care, so it's not an accurate argument either. There's a reason why certain behaviors result in more expensive insurance or an outright refusal to cover. If you ask me, that is what is creating outrageous costs in health care. I'd rather punish that behavior than open the flood gates and let anyone become a doctor with cheaper, less intensive training.
    I'm not the one who brought up clothes, that was ttwtt. You'll have to take that up with him.

    Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE?
    and a brand new car can be totaled rather quickly and unexpectedly, just as anyone can require an expensive medical procedure also quickly and unexpectedly, regardless of the "behaviors" in which they have engaged.

    That's why we need insurance.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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