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Thread: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Thats not the point. We're debating whether Obamas words contradict.
    No, we're debating whether one sentence of one speech on one day is all that there is on the subject. There has been some give and take all along. Obama has agreed in principle to increases and taxes and spending cuts. Republicans tea party folks have largely insisted on no tax increases and democrats largely no cuts. Seems to me Obama is less the problem here than the two parties.

    However, you're too narrow in criticism and incorrectly label the speech as something it really isn't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    If you beleive polls, voters back republican tax plans, and polls prior to the election indicated voters agreed more with republicans on the economy.

    Gallup Fiscal Cliff Poll: Republicans Could Win On Taxes - Business Insider
    You do understand that the election results dealt every major player a different hand of cards don't you?
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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, we're debating whether one sentence of one speech on one day is all that there is on the subject. There has been some give and take all along. Obama has agreed in principle to increases and taxes and spending cuts. Republicans tea party folks have largely insisted on no tax increases and democrats largely no cuts. Seems to me Obama is less the problem here than the two parties.

    However, you're too narrow in criticism and incorrectly label the speech as something it really isn't.
    No, were debating the topic I posted in the OP, which was Obamas press conference about the fiscal cliff. In which he literaly said 'here are your two options'. If you want to compare it to his past speeches, then the contrast is even more apparent. He is not interested in compromise or new ideas. His only goal is to extend the tax cuts for those under 250k before he will do anything else. That is what he said.

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You do understand that the election results dealt every major player a different hand of cards don't you?
    No, I understand that your claim the GOP is out of touch with voters on economic matters has no factual evidence behind it.

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, I understand that your claim the GOP is out of touch with voters on economic matters has no factual evidence behind it.
    FACTUAL EVIDENCE: Obama campaigned on raising taxes on the rich while Romney campaigned on NOT raisign them. Obama won - Romney lost.

    Please see the election results from a week ago for factual evidence of those results. Also see the CNN exit polling on public support for tax increases for the rich.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83429.html
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-16-12 at 02:53 PM.
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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    FACTUAL EVIDENCE: Obama campaigned on raising taxes on the rich while Romney campaigned on NOT raisign them. Obama won - Romney lost.

    Please see the election results from a week ago for factual evidence of those results. Also see the CNN exit polling on public support for tax increases for the rich.

    Exit polls 2012: Most say hike taxes - Emily Schultheis - POLITICO.com
    The great thing about polls is you can always find one to say what you want.

    Gallup Fiscal Cliff Poll: Republicans Could Win On Taxes - Business Insider

    And they are not factual evidence to me. Just like assuming Obama won because he was in touch with voters on economic matters is not factual evidence. C does not neccesarily indicate A

    2012 Exit Polls: Why They Won't Tell You Who Won

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    But it clearly was an issue in the presidential campaign and the candidate who won clearly supported raising taxes on the rich. The candidate who opposed it lost.
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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, were debating the topic I posted in the OP, which was Obamas press conference about the fiscal cliff. In which he literaly said 'here are your two options'. If you want to compare it to his past speeches, then the contrast is even more apparent. He is not interested in compromise or new ideas. His only goal is to extend the tax cuts for those under 250k before he will do anything else. That is what he said.
    Your reading is a dishonest reading. Nothing is in a vacuum absent any context or history. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But it clearly was an issue in the presidential campaign and the candidate who won clearly supported raising taxes on the rich. The candidate who opposed it lost.
    And logically those things are not necessarily connected. But again, the topic is what Obama said in his press conference.

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    Re: Focus on Petraeus and Taxes as Obama Faces Reporters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your reading is a dishonest reading. Nothing is in a vacuum absent any context or history. Sorry.
    Your defense is a dishonest one. Has Obama simply said "im open to new ideas, we can either extend everything, extend what I want, or come up with a third option" you might have a point. But he reiterated that there are only two options, and that anything but raising taxes on the rich is unacceptable.

    "there are two pathways available"

    Option one, if Congress fails to act by the end of this year, everybody’s taxes will automatically go up, including the 98 percent of Americans who make less than $250,000 a year and the 97 percent of small businesses who earn less than $250,000 a year. That doesn’t make sense. Our economy can’t afford that right now. Certainly no middle-class family can afford that right now.
    The other option is to pass a law right now that would prevent any tax hike whatsoever on the first $250,000 of everybody’s income. And by the way, that means every American, including the wealthiest Americans, get a tax cut. It means that 98 percent of all Americans and 97 percent of all small businesses won’t see their taxes go up a single dime.

    The Senate has already passed a law like this. Democrats in the House are ready to pass a law like this. And I hope Republicans in the House come on board too. We should not hold the middle class hostage while we debate tax cuts for the wealthy. We should at least do what we agree on, and that’s to keep middle-class taxes lower. And I’ll bring everyone in to sign it right away so we can give folks some certainty before the holiday season.
    And of course he has to call Republicans terrorists too. That doesnt sound very nice.

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