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Thread: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

  1. #31
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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    build more refineries?
    why refine more than we need? it isn't like we are going to become any more an exporter of oil or refined products than we already are...
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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    why refine more than we need? it isn't like we are going to become any more an exporter of oil or refined products than we already are...
    why produce more energy, which we can use for ourselves and we can sell? i don't know, why produce anything. why not just go back to living in caves.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    why produce more energy, which we can use for ourselves and we can sell? i don't know, why produce anything. why not just go back to living in caves.
    Crude oil stores and ships a lot easier and safer than refined products.....
    My comment is about refining, yours is about half past stupid....
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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Crude oil stores and ships a lot easier and safer than refined products.....
    My comment is about refining, yours is about half past stupid....
    we dont have nearly the refining capacity to keep up with our potential for production. you should do a little math with regard to that. it takes much longer to build refineries than to increase production.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i think it's great that we're producing more oil. the problem is that oil is finite and fungible, and China and India are developing middle classes. when they start buying Buicks, we could put the entire Rocky mountain range in the blender and there still won't be enough oil.

    we should drill what we have while transitioning to something else, using electric as an intermediate fuel.
    The question of just how finite the carbon energy supply is subject to debate and has been ongoing for decades. Bottom line is that as improved production methods and rising prices come into play, the number changes. I grew up in Colorado. 65 years ago it was known that the area around Rifle was awash with shale oil. The problem was that it was not cost effective to extract. In addition, there is a growing contingent that is coming to believe that our whole concept of the origin of oil is flawed. How did fossils get 10,000 feet down? No evidence of plate turnover anywhere near that. I expect that we will learn a lot in the future.

    I would agree that experimentation with other sources of energy is a good thing. However, subsidizing non competitive sources is not. Let them stand on their own.
    Do you realize that of a typical 20 gallon fill up, approximately 10 dollars goes to the cost of the alcohol? Solar and wind energy are similarly subsidized.
    BTW, electricity is not a fuel. There are no electricity wells or mines anywhere, electricity is at best only a method of moving energy from one point to another. That it does well. The energy mus be produced from another source.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    The question of just how finite the carbon energy supply is subject to debate and has been ongoing for decades. Bottom line is that as improved production methods and rising prices come into play, the number changes. I grew up in Colorado. 65 years ago it was known that the area around Rifle was awash with shale oil. The problem was that it was not cost effective to extract. In addition, there is a growing contingent that is coming to believe that our whole concept of the origin of oil is flawed. How did fossils get 10,000 feet down? No evidence of plate turnover anywhere near that. I expect that we will learn a lot in the future.

    I would agree that experimentation with other sources of energy is a good thing. However, subsidizing non competitive sources is not. Let them stand on their own.
    Do you realize that of a typical 20 gallon fill up, approximately 10 dollars goes to the cost of the alcohol? Solar and wind energy are similarly subsidized.
    BTW, electricity is not a fuel. There are no electricity wells or mines anywhere, electricity is at best only a method of moving energy from one point to another. That it does well. The energy mus be produced from another source.
    unlimited abiotic oil is exceptionally unlikely.

    as for subsidizing emerging technology, energy is a national security issue. so, while it's entirely proper for the market to play a significant role, the issue is too critically important for us to wait for an alternate solution to become economically competitive before it is innovated. our grid should be considered both private and public infrastructure, and should be developed as such. on the innovation side, I'd prefer a NASA-type program to organize the public and private components. it's my opinion that we should set a moonshot date for an alternate transportation energy model. with adequate resources, it could be done in two to three decades, and the technology would be exportable. if we focused, we could effectively make America not only the world's bread basket, but also the world's leader in energy technology. I think that's an intelligent and worthy goal.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by roflpublican View Post
    the argument you mentioned is funded mainly by those who want to keep the price of oil high. also known as the oil companies. it's better for their profit margins if oil is a more valuable/rare commodity, much like how diamond production is restricted by the de beers cartel which opposes increased diamond production for the same reason.
    Actually, I think that the argument is more likely perpetuated by those who consider carbon energy to be a flawed source. Why would an oil company or companies go to the trouble of purchasing leases, develop test wells, apply for permits developing new technologies, if they had no intention of exploiting the source? In the case of Keystone, the companies have over a billion dollars of pipe already purchased. Said purchases based on the expectation that the line will be built. All that is lost if it is not. It is the Obama administration, through the DOE and Environmental, that are not issuing permits. While any industry would like the price of their goods to remain high, that advantage is no advantage if the industry is not permitted to exploit the anomaly.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Actually, I think that the argument is more likely perpetuated by those who consider carbon energy to be a flawed source. Why would an oil company or companies go to the trouble of purchasing leases, develop test wells, apply for permits developing new technologies, if they had no intention of exploiting the source? In the case of Keystone, the companies have over a billion dollars of pipe already purchased. Said purchases based on the expectation that the line will be built. All that is lost if it is not. It is the Obama administration, through the DOE and Environmental, that are not issuing permits. While any industry would like the price of their goods to remain high, that advantage is no advantage if the industry is not permitted to exploit the anomaly.
    have you seen the profits of oil companies since obama was elected? records every quarter. i'd say the policy is working great for them. they're exploiting the anomaly all right, the anomaly of no permits helping drive the price up .

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    unlimited abiotic oil is exceptionally unlikely.

    as for subsidizing emerging technology, energy is a national security issue. so, while it's entirely proper for the market to play a significant role, the issue is too critically important for us to wait for an alternate solution to become economically competitive before it is innovated. our grid should be considered both private and public infrastructure, and should be developed as such. on the innovation side, I'd prefer a NASA-type program to organize the public and private components. it's my opinion that we should set a moonshot date for an alternate transportation energy model. with adequate resources, it could be done in two to three decades, and the technology would be exportable. if we focused, we could effectively make America not only the world's bread basket, but also the world's leader in energy technology. I think that's an intelligent and worthy goal.
    Based on what I have read, I would agree that fossil fuel is the norm, however, there are still questions remaining. In my lifetime, it does not matter. There is more than enough carbon fuel to last the country for at least decades. Some say centuries. If national security is the issue, the immediate fix is to make ourselves energy independent, and that can be done most quickly and cheaply by focusing research on carbon. Not to say that research into other sources should not be done, and base research is one thing the government might do well. Are you aware that there is a huge amount of unexplained energy in the universe? Perhaps government expenditures should go that way. Once the basic research is done, why not make it free and available and let market forces develop the end product. Both sides doing what they do best.

    At present, the focus seems to be the shove it down our throats approach. Alcohol is mandated, and the cost of alcohol is near twice the price of gasoline. Not to mention the effect of using food for fuel on the price of food. Solar and wind are heavily subsidized, and the subsidy is not research oriented, but geared toward the retail market to make them competitive. There have been comments by those in the administration that 10 buck gasoline is a good thing as that would make alternates cost competitive. Not to me.

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    Re: U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Based on what I have read, I would agree that fossil fuel is the norm, however, there are still questions remaining. In my lifetime, it does not matter. There is more than enough carbon fuel to last the country for at least decades. Some say centuries. If national security is the issue, the immediate fix is to make ourselves energy independent, and that can be done most quickly and cheaply by focusing research on carbon. Not to say that research into other sources should not be done, and base research is one thing the government might do well. Are you aware that there is a huge amount of unexplained energy in the universe? Perhaps government expenditures should go that way. Once the basic research is done, why not make it free and available and let market forces develop the end product. Both sides doing what they do best.

    At present, the focus seems to be the shove it down our throats approach. Alcohol is mandated, and the cost of alcohol is near twice the price of gasoline. Not to mention the effect of using food for fuel on the price of food. Solar and wind are heavily subsidized, and the subsidy is not research oriented, but geared toward the retail market to make them competitive. There have been comments by those in the administration that 10 buck gasoline is a good thing as that would make alternates cost competitive. Not to me.
    100 years of natural gas for current US usage
    200-500 of coal depending on who you ask, but no less
    oil for 222 if we had to stop importing tommorow. but coal can be converted, and natural gas is a good substitute in many ways. 1.442 trillion/18,000,000/365
    not to mention enough farmland to feed our people and grow our energy in ethanol indefinitely.
    and enough desert to cover 1/10th of nevada in solar panels and meet our energy needs indefinitely
    etc.
    Last edited by roflpublican; 11-12-12 at 07:40 PM.

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