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Thread: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Depends on how you define “a lot more”. It is better to just characterize it as something that is very common. Fracking has been used in wells, new and existing, for several decades. However new techniques and processes have been developed and refined that allow production in formations that just weren’t economically feasible before.

    A decade ago this was coal bed methane, for example, where the NG is being extracted from seams of coal. More recently NG from shale, such as the Marcellus Shale formation that extends through large portions of coal country in the Appalachians. Now this shale oil is the next big hit coming up. All of these “unconventional” wells (and frankly, even a serious number of traditional “conventional” holes for some time now) they would never be drilled and put into production without fracking.
    West Virginia and Pennsylvania were experiancing increased drilling activity awhile back. A lot of the holes out here that had already been drilled are or were in the process of being worked over till recently. Hopefully it will pick back.
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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    West Virginia and Pennsylvania were experiancing increased drilling activity awhile back. A lot of the holes out here that had already been drilled are or were in the process of being worked over till recently. Hopefully it will pick back.
    The NG is there, the drilling will continue. If more holes weren’t going to be drilled my wife wouldn’t be wasting time on working out the regulations for it.

    The low prices of NG are keeping it relatively slow, but those low NG are also what are shutting down the coal mines. Coal industry folks like to kick and fuss about it being the EPA that is doing that but really at the core market forces, current and projected because of the NG reserves that are down there, are what are killing coal. So as power generation and such converts over to NG the prices are expected to stabilize. One thing about NG, it is a bitch to store sizable quantities of it. It isn’t very easy to stockpile.

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    That my friends is the trick. I am in the oil industry you would think at the prices we are seeing per barrel that we would be pumping like mad. Not so much everything has pretty much shut down because of the election and hasnt picked up. I am hoping it picks up in the new year. We will see. My customers have to deal with the like of California and the EPA. That is not pleasent or cheap. I sincerly dont know whats going to happen.
    I just saw a trailer yesterday for some movie with Matt Damon which is all about the "horror" of fracking. It'll be put into the popular culture that it's all BAD BAD BAD BAD and will kill all of us, and it'll stay locked up tight.
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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I just saw a trailer yesterday for some movie with Matt Damon which is all about the "horror" of fracking. It'll be put into the popular culture that it's all BAD BAD BAD BAD and will kill all of us, and it'll stay locked up tight.
    He sounds just like Tererun, both of which have no clue what they are talking about. Your right though we are starting to see it tightening up out here in California. They backed way off on the drilling in my area. They as far as my understanding still have a drilling program for next year but as to the extent of it has as of yet remained to be seen. Ironically the oil just seeps out of the ground naturally out here in some places and has since before people showed up. Go figure.
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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I just saw a trailer yesterday for some movie with Matt Damon which is all about the "horror" of fracking. It'll be put into the popular culture that it's all BAD BAD BAD BAD and will kill all of us, and it'll stay locked up tight.
    The only actors that’ll ‘kill’ fracking is bad actors in the industry that aren’t kept in line, that are let run amuck. Too many of those, greedy SOBs short cutting and cowboys doing sloppy work, is what’ll screw it up.

    Just like drilling in the Gulf.

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Problem with things like fracking is any ecological damage doesn't end where your land does. If you pollute the water table, and there's farms that share the water table with your mining site, things will go worse for them.
    The imminent domain issue is overblown. The process for proving need has changed dramatically since the 60's. Reagan was the last President to try a wholesale charge at it (so much for liberal conspiracy) and met with only limited success.

    Fracking in shale is stupid. Like spud says that methodology will result in law suits beyond your wildest dreams under various environmental and health laws dealing with user rights outside the active areas. A more functional and less expensive way is superheat and forced recovery. Shale is fairly porous as rocks go and this method as I understand it gives more bang for the buck. The pluses far outway the minuses when compared to fracking which is designed for more dense rock formations.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Chuck, you're off on the public protections role. BP didn't resist one thing in regards to money that was reasonable. They knew they screwed up, they opened the check book to take care of it. And for the most part, partnered with the rest of the responders (Fed, State and local), did a pretty damned good job.
    Also, I have worked with BP for many years compared to american companies they are one of the most pro active oil companies out there. Now my work was mostly with small refineries and stations but I seriously doubt BP has one set of rules for one petroleum group and another set for the other.

    Chuck you have to remember BP bought out alot of Standard Oil because they were going under with all the law suites over wide spread contamination in the US. Amoco is the one who has the poorest safety and envrionmental record of any oil company in the USA including Exxon and thats saying something.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Nothing to be euphoric about. Oil shale requires heavy investment and if the price of oil drops the cost of producing will ezcced the price they could obtain for the oil.
    Very good point. Fracking is hugely expensive when compared to return on investment, but there are other means to extract some of the oil
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    If oil shale was viable USA would have exploited it some 50 years ago and till today it's not viable.





    http://ec.europa.eu/environment/inte...pdf/276na3.pdf
    It was not economically viable even 20 years ago. Once gas prices increased to the point that the big oil companies thought it would work they went at it, but that was not too long ago either.

    I really doubt this will catch on.

    Also, for those GW deniers. If there is still so much oil (free) out there why are the oil companines even considering this extreme measure. Sorry oil independance is not answer if your premise is accurate about the amount of free flowing oil under the earth.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Shale Boom to Turn U.S. Into World's Largest Oil Producer, Watchdog Says

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Fracking in shale is stupid. Like spud says that methodology will result in law suits beyond your wildest dreams under various environmental and health laws dealing with user rights outside the active areas. A more functional and less expensive way is superheat and forced recovery. Shale is fairly porous as rocks go and this method as I understand it gives more bang for the buck. The pluses far outway the minuses when compared to fracking which is designed for more dense rock formations.
    You understand incorrectly.

    First, read Sherman123’s explanation of Oil Shale vs Shale Oil. ..

    Next, geology 101. Shale has high porosity but low permeability. This means lots of space between the particles (can run as high as %30 IIRC) in the rock but those spaces are not linked by channels, so whatever is in the pores does not readily flow out and through the shale. This is in contrast to, say, sandstone that also has high porosity but also has high permeability.

    That is why the fracking is required, for either of those. Unless the oil shale is near enough to the surface to strip-mine ala portions of the Canadian Tar Sands, where upon you could alternatively crush it in grinders.
    Last edited by Dwight; 11-15-12 at 02:42 PM.

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