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Thread: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Social security does not go into the general fund. It goes into a separate social security fund, which is then drawn on for current benefits. Any surplus is required to be invested t-bonds which then go into the general fund.
    [/I]
    That's not entirely accurate. Starting in 1968 excess SS receipts which were deemed by the SS admin
    to be beyond that necessary, were allowed to be applied against the deficit.
    Both sides have done this to the tune of about $5Trillion over that time.
    No bonds, the money is just spent.
    (the Clinton budgets never really balanced, because they counted excess SS funds.)
    SS does hold about $6T in very low interest bonds.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    If you'd like to see what high tax rates on the rich look like, you only need to look as far as France. Taxes jumped, and so did they. There are now so many high earning French in GB that they jokingly refer to London as France's 7th largest city. 40 of France's wealthiest people now live in Belguim. It doesn't work. And if you would prefer to put that tax on businesses, expect an exodus of outsourcing. What we need is a budget, not increased taxes. In our households we understand we can't have everything, the government needs to figure that out too.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post

    Well, sort of:




    So, the government can lend the SS money to itself, spend it, and put the IOU (T bond) back into the SS fund. The result is a pot full of IOUs. There is no essential difference between the fate of money paid via payroll taxes and money paid in the form of income taxes.
    The difference is that it is money that was paid for by the labor and sweat of American workers to insure their health and well being after they retire. It is payment on the contract we have made as a nation. How can you forget this stuff? Just because it was made before you were born is no excuse for your ignorance.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    That's not entirely accurate. Starting in 1968 excess SS receipts which were deemed by the SS admin
    to be beyond that necessary, were allowed to be applied against the deficit.
    Both sides have done this to the tune of about $5Trillion over that time.
    No bonds, the money is just spent.
    (the Clinton budgets never really balanced, because they counted excess SS funds.)
    SS does hold about $6T in very low interest bonds.
    That's not entirely accurate, either. SS surpluses were not counted against the deficit to produce a balanced budget; rather, they were simply ignored. Otherwise SS surpluses are paradoxically counted as contributing to the deficit, because they consist of debt owed to future SS recipients.

    Say, for example, that you have a $100,000 mortgage, and you decide to set up a savings account dedicated to paying your monthly mortgage. If you put $20,000 in that account, does that increase your debt? Not really, but that's how some people want to account for the SS surplus. It produces an absurd result: the more SS revenue you collect, the more this accounting method says you owe (or the bigger your deficit becomes).
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    The rich benefit the most from the tax code...by code that allows total avoidance of tax responsibility
    If the "rich" pay the most income tax, what are they avoiding? Who benefits the most, he who pays 10% income tax or he who pays none? The poor are asks to pay no income tax.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post

    Well, sort of:




    So, the government can lend the SS money to itself, spend it, and put the IOU (T bond) back into the SS fund. The result is a pot full of IOUs. There is no essential difference between the fate of money paid via payroll taxes and money paid in the form of income taxes.
    Thats what I said. SS money gets spent on SS benefits directly, and any surplus is lent to the govt. SS is not taking in enough right now though, so no money is getting lent. All revenue that comes in through OASID goes right back out to current retirees.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I would be willing to compromise.
    The difference between the additional tax revenue brought in by allowing the top tier
    of the *Obama tax cut to expire and the deficit is about $1.1 Trillion.
    *( Obama signed the current tax rates into law in 2010)
    I think the ratio was 16:1, So if the Democrats cut $16. from the budget for each additional
    dollar raised by the new taxes, I am ON BOARD.
    Your idea of compromise is a whole lot short of meeting the other side halfway.

    Lets do just that - both sides agree on a number - half to come from tax raises and half from spending cuts. Now that is meeting somebody halfway.

    16 to 1 is beyond absurd.
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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your idea of compromise is a whole lot short of meeting the other side halfway.

    Lets do just that - both sides agree on a number - half to come from tax raises and half from spending cuts. Now that is meeting somebody halfway.

    16 to 1 is beyond absurd.
    Actually absurd, is the amount of unfunded spending our Government has been engaging in.
    We can fix part of it through increased taxes, but the Government's method of base line budgeting
    will spend any increase before it can reduce the deficit.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Are they finally gonna sacrifice the interests of the richest of the rich for the rest of the American public?
    What the hell does that mean, Socialist? One can't help get the feeling that the Left is more interested in tearing down the rich, than it is building up everyone else. So they raises taxes. Then what? Will that prove to be a definite step up for you?

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    What the hell does that mean, Socialist? One can't help get the feeling that the Left is more interested in tearing down the rich, than it is building up everyone else. So they raises taxes. Then what? Will that prove to be a definite step up for you?
    A 10% raise in rates on income over $250,000 is "tearing down the rich"? It's call shared sacrifice, the middle class gets cus to programs for them and so do the rich.

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