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Thread: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    It was 2 hours ago, like ten posts. Perhaps you need to stop constantly posting random rhetoric if you cant keep track of it.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061143406
    You're right that was written wrong..and I dont believe there is TOTAL avoidance...just alot of avoidance meaning loopholes that allow the rich to pay far less a percentage than even some middleclass...thanks for pointing that out...I dont intentionally make gross mistatments..unless I truly believe it

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the entire tax burden is 15%, and the government continues to spend 21%, the deficits continue. if you add another 13% to low and middle tax payers in the form of payroll taxes, then the budget might balance out.

    What we tend to forget is that payroll taxes also go into the general fund, just like income taxes do, and are used for the day to day expenses of government. There is no social security "trust fund" out there, just an empty bin of government promises.
    Social security does not go into the general fund. It goes into a separate social security fund, which is then drawn on for current benefits. Any surplus is required to be invested t-bonds which then go into the general fund.

    But regarding spending, the point was that a 15% flat tax 'might' bring in 10% of revenue lets say, but as I showed above thats more than current. Once you also add in the SS tax, thats 18% of GDP. So no deep cuts are needed relative to not having a flat tax.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You're right that was written wrong..and I dont believe there is TOTAL avoidance...just alot of avoidance meaning loopholes that allow the rich to pay far less a percentage than even some middleclass...thanks for pointing that out...I dont intentionally make gross mistatments..unless I truly believe it
    Ok, fine. In that case, I dont really have anything to argue about. I disagree with your definition of fairness, but theres nothing new here.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The bin is not "empty" it has treasury bonds with the full weight of the US govt. behind them. There will be no welching on those bonds.
    Which is, in turn, a part of that 16 trillion and growing national debt. How is that ever going to be paid?
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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Ok, fine. In that case, I dont really have anything to argue about. I disagree with your definition of fairness, but theres nothing new here.
    hey disagreeing is what this forum is all about...if we all agreed this would be a dating site lol

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Republicans - No Compromise!! Ever!! Stick to your guns! Listen to what Rush and the other leaders of your party on radio are saying!
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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Which is, in turn, a part of that 16 trillion and growing national debt. How is that ever going to be paid?
    Out of your hide if necessary which it is not. We have never paid back any debt since 1776, why would we start now?

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    It would be an interesting argument if increasing taxes on the wealthy would have a meaningful effect on revenue, but it won't. This isn't about the money, it's about punitive taxation. It won't change the deficit, it's just a move to make selfish people feel better. Problem is, the thinking is backwards. Taxing the rich more will not reduce everyone else's taxes. If the middle class feels taxes are too high they should seek a reduction instead of acting like petulent children. Since increasing taxes on the rich will not have a meaningful effect on revenue, it raises the question: What's next? Raise their rates and the dem base gets a feeling of revenge, for a while. But what happens when that feeling wears off? Raise them higher?

    I've got a better idea. Instead of looking at current spending and saying the government needs more (and more and more) why not submit a budget. You know, a REAL one (since we haven't seen one since Obama took office) and only THEN see what adjustments need to be made. Households need a budget, businesses need a budget, the government should have one too.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Actually Senate minority leader McConnell has said he is "onboard" with 1 to 1 budget cuts to tax revenue. Now we are gettng somewhere.
    That will not help anything, our Government spends too much compared to their income.
    Even if they taxed everyone at 100%, they may not have enough.
    The only answer is cut spending, If the Dems price to balance the budget is to increase taxes
    on those over $250 a year by 10%, so be it.
    We must get our budget under control if we are to survive as a nation.

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    Re: Bill Kristol: “It won’t kill the country” to raise taxes on millionaires

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Social security does not go into the general fund. It goes into a separate social security fund, which is then drawn on for current benefits. Any surplus is required to be invested t-bonds which then go into the general fund.

    But regarding spending, the point was that a 15% flat tax 'might' bring in 10% of revenue lets say, but as I showed above thats more than current. Once you also add in the SS tax, thats 18% of GDP. So no deep cuts are needed relative to not having a flat tax.

    Well, sort of:


    However, the Social Security Act specifies that the monies in the fund may "be invested in securities backed by the full faith and credit of the Federal government," such as treasury bills, treasury notes, and treasury bonds, as well as special issue bonds. So, essentially, the government can "invest" Social Security funds by lending them to itself, then spending that money on programs not related to Social Security (e.g., defense, foreign aid, education). This has always been the case.
    So, the government can lend the SS money to itself, spend it, and put the IOU (T bond) back into the SS fund. The result is a pot full of IOUs. There is no essential difference between the fate of money paid via payroll taxes and money paid in the form of income taxes.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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