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Thread: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    Our government is the only real criminals here. I don't approve of everything that wikileaks has done, but I think that information wants to be free and it's important that people know the truth.
    Wow, this is just a HUGE pile of naivity. Do you realize the biggest thing that was hurt by Manning's leaks was diplomacy? You know, the method of negotiating with friends as well as enemies to avoid actual conflict. So in essence, he hurt Peace and created tension. Diplomacy is a poker game, you don't want who you're negotiating with to see your cards. Manning showed them the cards.

    His release was indiscriminate, thats why he's not a whistleblower.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Where is the idea that Manning is a whistleblower coming from? He didn't identify specific incidents of wrong-doing and selectively leak information relating to them, he copied data in bulk, much more than he could have personally read, and passed it all to a third party. Even if there was no major harm as a result of any of the information he passed on (which is somewhat disputed I believe), the fact is that there could have been. That's why leaking information like this is illegal.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Where is the idea that Manning is a whistleblower coming from? He didn't identify specific incidents of wrong-doing and selectively leak information relating to them, he copied data in bulk, much more than he could have personally read, and passed it all to a third party. Even if there was no major harm as a result of any of the information he passed on (which is somewhat disputed I believe), the fact is that there could have been. That's why leaking information like this is illegal.
    His fanboys keep repeating that lie over and over hoping it takes hold.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Wow, this is just a HUGE pile of naivity. Do you realize the biggest thing that was hurt by Manning's leaks was diplomacy? You know, the method of negotiating with friends as well as enemies to avoid actual conflict. So in essence, he hurt Peace and created tension. Diplomacy is a poker game, you don't want who you're negotiating with to see your cards. Manning showed them the cards.

    His release was indiscriminate, thats why he's not a whistleblower.
    According to dictionary.com, a whistle blower is someone who " informs on another or makes public disclosure of corruption or wrongdoing."

    Seems fair to say that he is one based on the definition. Maybe he didn't know everything that he sent out, but he obviously knew enough to get the picture since is motives, as conveyed by the chat logs with Adrian Lamo, were to encourage world wide debate and reforms. Again, sounds like a whisteblower to me.

    But really we are just arguing semantics now. Who cares what we call him?
    "Idealists foolish enough to throw caution to the winds have advanced mankind and have enriched the world.

    "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue. "

    "The motto should not be: Forgive one another; rather understand one another. "
    -Emma Goldman

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    According to dictionary.com, a whistle blower is someone who " informs on another or makes public disclosure of corruption or wrongdoing."

    Seems fair to say that he is one based on the definition. Maybe he didn't know everything that he sent out, but he obviously knew enough to get the picture since is motives, as conveyed by the chat logs with Adrian Lamo, were to encourage world wide debate and reforms. Again, sounds like a whisteblower to me.

    But really we are just arguing semantics now. Who cares what we call him?
    And yet he still broke the law because he failed to utilize proper protocol for military whistleblowing....protocol he would have been well aware of as a member of that military.

    What I find absolutely disgusting is people who defend those who put us at risk. He didn't know the content of most of those documents. For all he knew, he could have been releasing cables that led to war, attacks on our soil, attacks at our embassies. It is by shear LUCK that his actions didn't result in deaths. Fortunately, our system doesn't care about lucky outcomes and focuses purely on the original illegal action.

    Manning deserves to be punished because he broke the law. The fact that you apparently think he's some kind of enlightened hero is rather telling.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    And yet he still broke the law because he failed to utilize proper protocol for military whistleblowing....protocol he would have been well aware of as a member of that military.

    What I find absolutely disgusting is people who defend those who put us at risk. He didn't know the content of most of those documents. For all he knew, he could have been releasing cables that led to war, attacks on our soil, attacks at our embassies. It is by shear LUCK that his actions didn't result in deaths. Fortunately, our system doesn't care about lucky outcomes and focuses purely on the original illegal action.

    Manning deserves to be punished because he broke the law. The fact that you apparently think he's some kind of enlightened hero is rather telling.
    I guess that is also why he deserved to be thrown in isolation for 9 months as well? Because he broke the law?

    And, by the way, where is the moral outrage for those who were exposed as war criminals in that apache helicopter video?
    "Idealists foolish enough to throw caution to the winds have advanced mankind and have enriched the world.

    "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue. "

    "The motto should not be: Forgive one another; rather understand one another. "
    -Emma Goldman

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    I guess that is also why he deserved to be thrown in isolation for 9 months as well? Because he broke the law?

    And, by the way, where is the moral outrage for those who were exposed as war criminals in that apache helicopter video?
    This thread isn't about those "exposed war criminals". It is about Bradley Manning.

    As for Bradley's treatment in jail....we don't know the circumstances of his placement in solitary. Or at least I don't. Until I know why it was done, I can't say whether it was cruel or inappropriate. If he was a danger to himself or others or was at risk in general population then solitary seems rather logical, doesn't it? Do you know why he was put in solitary? Are you going off the words of foreign bodies who don't actually have access to the records and day-to-days of the prison?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    This thread isn't about those "exposed war criminals". It is about Bradley Manning.

    As for Bradley's treatment in jail....we don't know the circumstances of his placement in solitary. Or at least I don't. Until I know why it was done, I can't say whether it was cruel or inappropriate. If he was a danger to himself or others or was at risk in general population then solitary seems rather logical, doesn't it? Do you know why he was put in solitary? Are you going off the words of foreign bodies who don't actually have access to the records and day-to-days of the prison?
    I think the circumstances are suspicious yes, especially considering it was ordered by a three star general.

    Evidence shows three-star general ordered Bradley’s unlawful, brutal treatment Bradley Manning Support Network

    Also the war criminals, which you have tellingly put in quotes (obviously you don't believe they were war criminals even though the video obviously shows they were), may not be what this thread is about, but it is certainly relevant if we are going to be discussing bradley manning. because i could also turn it around and say that this thread is not about diplomatic cables.
    "Idealists foolish enough to throw caution to the winds have advanced mankind and have enriched the world.

    "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue. "

    "The motto should not be: Forgive one another; rather understand one another. "
    -Emma Goldman

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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnMacCool View Post
    I think the circumstances are suspicious yes, especially considering it was ordered by a three star general.

    Evidence shows three-star general ordered Bradley’s unlawful, brutal treatment Bradley Manning Support Network

    Also the war criminals, which you have tellingly put in quotes (obviously you don't believe they were war criminals even though the video obviously shows they were), may not be what this thread is about, but it is certainly relevant if we are going to be discussing bradley manning. because i could also turn it around and say that this thread is not about diplomatic cables.

    1. Your link is a biased article, so I can't assume it presents factual representation of the situation.
    2. I put "war criminal" in quotes because without conviction, they are nothing but people in a video. Have they been convicted?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Bradley Manning Offers Guilty Pleas

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    1. Your link is a biased article, so I can't assume it presents factual representation of the situation.
    2. I put "war criminal" in quotes because without conviction, they are nothing but people in a video. Have they been convicted?
    1. Three-Star General Was Behind Harsh Treatment of Bradley Manning, Defense Alleges | Threat Level | Wired.com

    better?

    2. You're absolutely right. They have not been convicted. Nor have they been charged. And probably never will be. Why is that? Wish I knew.
    "Idealists foolish enough to throw caution to the winds have advanced mankind and have enriched the world.

    "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue. "

    "The motto should not be: Forgive one another; rather understand one another. "
    -Emma Goldman

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