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Thread: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I have a bridge to sell you. Interested?

    Sorry. I'm not one to fall hook line and sinker with I see a puke-inducing 'feel good' Suncor commercial. All I have to do is visit a polluted city and I will develop an instantaneous sinus infection. Been that way all of my life, and I am almost certain it's what will kill me in the end.

    You know, I could say a lot of things here, but I will leave you with this. A few years back I watched a documentary on how some people in West Virginia were upset because environmentalists were forcing their mountain top coal mining jobs out of business. The enviromentalists were called every name under the sun, and told to mind their freaking business by many, including the featured man and wife who lived in a most pristine setting. No doubt, times were tough for the couple money-wise. The reporter then asked how they would feel if the mountains that surrounded their beautiful home were chosen to be blasted. Without missing a beat, the husband blurted, "I'd do everything to stop it." (I paraphrase to the best of my memory, but the same gist). So basically, it's all okay, as long as it does not happen in my neighbourhood.
    And then there is this, all supported by government agencies.http://www.nma.org/pdf/fact_sheets/cct.pdf

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    But heck, harming their health is no big deal, eh? If you don't believe the averse effects that these industrial practices have on our health, then you are either naive or uninformed.
    Should we ban smoking and alcohol? Both of those are very harmful to health. The opposite is also true, there are many naive people that are uninformed and believe tons of hype and overplay everything when it comes to health and adverse effects (especially the environment).

    Still, we need to be maximizing our resources, the oil will either come from North America or the Middle East, I would rather not outsource that production and would like to be energy independent. Renewables are things of the future, but gas, oil, and natural gas are what we have today and we need to maximize that.
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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And then there is this, all supported by government agencies.http://www.nma.org/pdf/fact_sheets/cct.pdf
    Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever
    Coal and oil companies are pouring millions of dollars to style themselves as clean and 'green.' But just because they say it doesn't make it true.

    By Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, Contributor / November 3, 2012

    In this 2011 file photo, exhaust rises from smokestacks in front of piles of coal at NRG Energy's W.A. Parish Electric Generating Station in Thompsons, Texas. Fossil fuel industries are pouring millions of dollars into revamping their image as clean and 'green.'

    If you watch any of the dozens of recent coal, oil or gas advertisements, you would never guess what these industries are really up to. They paint a pretty green picture of their industries, making claims like “we strengthen communities” and pushing forward fictional concepts like “clean coal.”

    But calling something clean and green doesn’t always mean it is. The sad truth is that polluting coal, oil, and gas companies are pouring millions of dollars to redefine their industries as healthy, clean, and green. They’re sweeping their dirty practices (and deadly coal ash) under the rug. Misleading advertising campaigns are just the latest efforts to cover up for the fact that these companies are blocking clean energy jobs, unraveling basic air and water protections, and setting Americans back decades.

    Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Should we ban smoking and alcohol? Both of those are very harmful to health. The opposite is also true, there are many naive people that are uninformed and believe tons of hype and overplay everything when it comes to health and adverse effects (especially the environment).
    I can make a choice to not smoke, or go to a non-smoking establishment. Thanks to the non-smoking Nazis, we now have this choice!
    However, I don't have a choice on all of the other air that I breathe. Or the tap water that I drink, for the matter.

    As for your other point, I can tell you from a perspective that I have personally experienced. My parents were forced to leave my birth place because of sickness brought on by pollution. It's a problem I still experience.

    Still, we need to be maximizing our resources, the oil will either come from North America or the Middle East, I would rather not outsource that production and would like to be energy independent. Renewables are things of the future, but gas, oil, and natural gas are what we have today and we need to maximize that.
    Nenewables will always be considered things of the future as long as we 'have the resources' to keep us going the traditional way. This is an excellent article, please read:

    Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Juiposa View Post
    I oppose the notion of selling the US more oil. We need to re-nationalise it and sell only the surplus after supplying our own market. There is no reason our gas prices should be fluctuating due to stupidity in the Middle East when we have enough oil in Alberta to supply ourselves.
    This is the plan we need.

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I can make a choice to not smoke, or go to a non-smoking establishment. Thanks to the non-smoking Nazis, we now have this choice!
    However, I don't have a choice on all of the other air that I breathe. Or the tap water that I drink, for the matter.

    As for your other point, I can tell you from a perspective that I have personally experienced. My parents were forced to leave my birth place because of sickness brought on by pollution. It's a problem I still experience.



    Nenewables will always be considered things of the future as long as we 'have the resources' to keep us going the traditional way. This is an excellent article, please read:

    Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com
    That's a political tract and has nothing to do with science.

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's still Alberta's oil.
    Just because it is in Alberta doesn't make it solely Alberta's. Provinces don't have nearly as much as States, and if the Federal gov't wanted to nationalise the resource a province has, then the province really no choice. The rest of the country could benefit so much by tapping into Alberta's energy.
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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Juiposa View Post
    Just because it is in Alberta doesn't make it solely Alberta's. Provinces don't have nearly as much as States, and if the Federal gov't wanted to nationalise the resource a province has, then the province really no choice. The rest of the country could benefit so much by tapping into Alberta's energy.
    That would not be realistic for any political party.

    Nonetheless it is a danger that, like Trudeau's NEP, the Feds might try to seize Alberta's assets. At that point separation would look a lot more attractive to many Western Canadians. Western Canadians identify with Western Canada much more so than Ontario, Quebec or the Maritimes, In fact they probably identify more with the Northwest states, outside of hockey season. The cultures in Canada and US tend to run north and south moreso than east to west.

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's a political tract and has nothing to do with science.
    No, the vomit-inducing 'we care ads' from companies that are responsible for ****ing up our water, climate, mountains and the very air we breathe. Love this bit:

    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    It's also my philosophy, too. It's time we look towards the future.
    I’m not against looking to the future, in fact I’m highly in favor of it. My problem lies in when is that future going to take place ? There is nothing wrong with doing what we can do to ease or even stop or need of imported oil, while we explore other energy sources.

    Why should the American people suffer with 4 or 5 dollar a gallon gas prices when we don’t have to? If we up production of oil in this country, it can only help us now … and in the future … as we develop new technology and need less oil, then we end up with a valuable export that brings more money into our country, until that happens we lower prices, add the much needed good paying jobs and reduce our need of foreign oil …. But I guess in the minds of some those are all bad things

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