military is a classic example. the white guys hang out with the white guys, the black guys hang out with the black guys, the hispanic guys hang out with the hispanic guys. it not like if a black guy comes over to the white crowd anyone runs him off or makes him feel unwlecome... the guys just tend to self segregate into groups of like race. the only times I've ever seen it not happen that way is if there is not enough of any one "race" to form their own group.
during the duty day the races mix and everyone gets along, but once we're off duty people tend to hang with their own
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Logically speaking, I'm certainly not going to have much respect for those who look at me negatively for simply being successful. It's like the kid who cries "no fair" when he sees a kid with something he doesn't have. As a man who has worked his way from poverty to upper-middle class, I know it doesn't take much besides a plan and some hard work. As educators, my wife and I have witnessed things like black students caring more about who wins bathroom brawls than good grades or even passing. Of course, this mostly falls on their parents poor guidance. How many of the 72% drooping out of HS in Detroit do you think made a genuine effort to pass or earn grades to get into college? Furthermore, it seems like the few that do are the only ones who care to speak English in an educated manner.
Lastly, I want to say that actions in public speak volumes. Society is a lot happier when showing respect is common. I've taught in Japan multiple times and Japanese put your average American to major shame when it comes to respecting elders and strangers. Wearing your pants to reveal your rear end intentionally, blurting perverted comments to women walking by, or even being loud and obnoxious describe black behavior commonly witnessed and are actions IMO which are disrespectful to your fellow citizens. While hypocritical, racial slurs are most commonly stated publicly by blacks, as demonstrated by the comments towards Stacey Dash when she announced her support for Romney.
To end on a positive note, Allen West is an example of a black who I highly respect.
"With me everything turns into mathematics."
"It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
"It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes
Well, yes, it *is* bad. If I make assumptions about someone based on their race (until facts/evidence prove otherwise), then it's still racism. Sometimes it can have tangible, negative consequences. For example, if someone subconsciously believes that blacks are lazy, and they're less likely to judge their black employees to be hard workers, they might be less likely to promote them. They might not mean to be racist...they might not even be aware that they're doing it.There are other concepts you're tossing around - like being prejudiced . . . but the concept of making generalizations using race as a 'starting point' isn't bad unless you're closed-minded or overtly negative and refuse to change your generalization even AFTER presented with disproving facts and evidence.
Granted, not every racial generalization is going to have those kind of consequences. My point is just that those things are extremely widespread in our culture, and so I find it pretty hard to believe that racism is mostly gone.
I've had those classes too. But there's a big difference between, say, learning all the customs associated with a specific culture versus judging some random guy you just met who looks like he might belong to that culture.In a few of my business courses we've done nothing but spend time learning about business-conduct in other cultures via generalizations and conclusions. It's not racism to do so - lest everyone in the entire world is racist (by your definition - we ALL are). The key is to keep an open mind. "this is a general guideline based on what most people experience" - it is not the same as "they're all like this - so stupid."
If you're going to be doing international travel, it makes a lot of sense to learn those customs. On the other hand, if those classes were offering lessons on how to deal with black Americans (beyond "don't be racist"), then I'd find it pretty offensive, because there are far more cultural differences WITHIN races in this country than there are BETWEEN races.Does that make sense?
I agree that it isn't always done with viciousness. I disagree that it's not negative and that it's not something to be avoided. If a person is making assumptions about someone based on their race, it probably *is* negative at least some of the time...and the person probably won't even be aware that they're doing it.Just because someone uses race as a component of identification or in an effort to understand someone's lifestyle or culture doesn't mean they're doing it negatively and with viciousness. . . or that it's something to be avoided.
Well, the accents/dialect aspect of it is part of it, but when I said that people sometimes speak differently around other people depending on their race, I was referring to more than just that. It can also be the types of things people talk about. Some people are more likely to talk about certain subjects with members of one race than with members of another race (aside from touchy racial issues themselves). They might feel that people of a certain race are less knowledgeable or less interested in certain subjects than members of other races.Now - what's with this:
Maybe - just maybe - did you ever consider that said individual is possibly trying to fit together better in a group or with another person? If someone hangs out with me and starts talking (I don't know what my accent is) - but like me . . . why is that a race-thing. Maybe it's a cultural response? Maybe it's a mental safety-response in which they're trying not to feel so 'different' than who they're with.
Why - if someone does that - do you think it's race related or a bad thing?
Maybe it helps both people feel like they have more in common?
I fail to see how it's something to take note of - or - that it's bad. Especially since accents aren't race-related. Spite what some people think (apparently) - all 'blacks' don't talk the same and neither do all 'whites' - your accent or dialect is cultural and regional. Not race related. You are exposed to it in childhood and take it on through that exposure. You're not born with it. Don't be ignorant on this topic.
Accents/dialect is like jargon and lingo - you pick it up if needed to blend in better. . . nothing more. If you go to a business meeting you're not going to use your casual-tone and words, are you? No difference.
Oh I know they're different. I'm not saying there is no difference between, say, someone who wants to bring back segregation, and someone who asks Asians where they're really from (implication: not here). The latter is most likely just clueless rather than malicious. But the racist mindset behind both of those ideas is the same: the idea that people can be classified into races, which are a good predictor of the individual's personality traits, background, and interests.Maybe you need to spend some real time around a ****ty racist prick in order to see the strong difference. It seems that we've done such a solid job of wiping out strong sentiments of racism that people don't even know what it is. I know - because my grandfather was as openly racist as you could get and I had to tolerate that ****er's mouth for years when I was a kid.
Look, I'm not saying that the people who hold these subconscious racist views are bad people. I've caught myself thinking along those lines before, and had to make a conscious effort to change my perceptions. Once a person makes an effort to be cognizant of these biases, it's much easier to correct them.
The "talking black" thing is your concept, not mine. But like I said, I'm not referring to THAT kind of racism anyway. The type I'm referring to has nothing to do with a "hated racial group"; the people perpetrating it usually don't hate any racial groups and are usually unaware that they're doing it.Trust me - the last thing racist people want to do is somehow sound like, look like, or act like their 'hated racial group' - so no, they won't be 'talking black' if they're near a black colleague in some form of imitation (I swear - what a silly concept - have you really put a lot of thought into that one?)
Last edited by Kandahar; 10-30-12 at 01:28 AM.
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I can't. This is important.
Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD
I'm not even going to line-by-line you.
Racism IS hatred or disgust and negative treatment of a racial group. You're pretending it's all OTHER things - and it's not. Other things have their own reason, their own category and their own definition and intent. . . Racism is specific.
Quit that **** - your view is exactly why some people cry 'that's racist!' when someone uses the term 'black hole' Or like the idiot the other year who told me I was racist because I said "[Fast-food version] of Chinese food is disgusting" . . . please, pull BACK and put some perspective on your thoughts because you're way off base.
A screaming comes across the sky.
It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow
My question is how do you know that racism is at a low number when you are not the recipient of racism towards blacks? I live in Dallas TX and I have experience really good relationships with white people but I have had my fair share of bad experiences with whites as well. Now I will say that it is also a good number of racist blacks as well. Unfortunately, I have some in my family. My Grandmother said that compare to the 50's it has gotten better but we still have a long way to go.
Fiddling While Rome Burns
Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."
I don't understand what the big deal is. Many things influence us throughout our lives and we all have our own bigotries, all of us. The problem with things like this is it is trying to say far to many are racists when they are not. Someone having a preference for being around "there own kind" are not necessarily racists. Now if you take something like the aforementioned and add they want to seperate the US into racial states etc, that's racism.
Are racists around? Of course. You don't need an online study to tell me that. Don't however try to convince me that 50% of the population is racists. I have been many places and around the world and people hate on many things, race can be one of many things. Hell I run into more religious discrimination than racial.
An online study where anyone can say whatever they want is not convincing. Really when I have personally seen white separatist groups purposely screw with polls etc like this, I just take it with a grain of salt.
No Lives Matter
No Lives Matter