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NYPD officer plotted to kidnap, cook and eat women, authorities say

MaggieD said:
I understand exactly what you mean by not renting room in your head for stories. Last night just before bedtime, someone posted a video about pig farming. I started the video and stopped it 6-7 seconds in, carrying an awful image to bed and half the day. I hate that ****. If that did this to you, you have my sincere apologies.
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O, hunni, don't feel that way. You only posted about this; you did not in ANY way create this negativity.

We're all good.
 
nota bene said:
The blessing in this story is that Valles's wife found stuff she thought was "weird" on his computer and fled with the kid out of state to her family.
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Did any woman get hurt, apart from the psychological scars they'll all bear?

Goddamn....imagine what will happen to the cases of everyone this fiend ever arrested.
 
These are the words that tell of the true sadism, the real horror of it beyond sadistic murder that no horror movie could really capture fully, and no one can really comprehend unless ever seeing such things in real life:

“I was thinking of tying her body onto some kind of apparatus,” he wrote to a co-conspirator in one electronic communication recovered by law enforcement authorities. “Cook her over a low heat, keep her alive as long as possible.”
 
After I'd read a few articles on this horror, I thought to myself that "Criminal Minds" writers now have new grist for their creative mill.

(Mandy Potimkin has spoken movingly about why he left this TV show, and I understood perfectly. Corrosive to the soul. And yet there is a reason why the FBI involves itself in cases such as this.)

The cop, from what I've read so far, had never acted on any of his fantasies or business plans. I think it was the NY Times article posted a few hours ago that quoted his saying that he hoped to become a "professional kidnapper."

I'm thinking about what his attorney will say--about how he was playing suckers and never intended to do anything. All that matters to me, whether he was for realz or just playing, is that he's been busted and that his wife and kid got away before fantasy turned into reality.
 
nota bene said:
After I'd read a few articles on this horror, I thought to myself that "Criminal Minds" writers now have new grist for their creative mill.

(Mandy Potimkin has spoken movingly about why he left this TV show, and I understood perfectly. Corrosive to the soul. And yet there is a reason why the FBI involves itself in cases such as this.)

The cop, from what I've read so far, had never acted on any of his fantasies or business plans. I think it was the NY Times article posted a few hours ago that quoted his saying that he hoped to become a "professional kidnapper."

I'm thinking about what his attorney will say--about how he was playing suckers and never intended to do anything. All that matters to me, whether he was for realz or just playing, is that he's been busted and that his wife and kid got away before fantasy turned into reality.
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I love Mandy Potimkin, and I watched a lot of "Criminal Minds" because of him, but it is sanitized, dumbed down and does not begin to convey the horror of the crimes the Behavioral Science Unit deals with -- and I myself do not claim to know, either, and don't want to.

I know cops who're friends with the guys involved in catching Danny Rollings, met Oba Chandler's appellate defense attorney, etc. and even this second and third hand brush with EVIL was more than my sanity could well-tolerate.
 
nota bene said:
After I'd read a few articles on this horror, I thought to myself that "Criminal Minds" writers now have new grist for their creative mill.

(Mandy Potimkin has spoken movingly about why he left this TV show, and I understood perfectly. Corrosive to the soul. And yet there is a reason why the FBI involves itself in cases such as this.)

The cop, from what I've read so far, had never acted on any of his fantasies or business plans. I think it was the NY Times article posted a few hours ago that quoted his saying that he hoped to become a "professional kidnapper."

I'm thinking about what his attorney will say--about how he was playing suckers and never intended to do anything. All that matters to me, whether he was for realz or just playing, is that he's been busted and that his wife and kid got away before fantasy turned into reality.
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That is a real problem with the Internet and criminal justice. On the Internet, people can starting following down bizarre fantasy paths with others that just keeps escalating between them. It is real? Just bizarre fantasy? Word games? Dark thoughts?

On one level, there should be freedom of thought. Yet is that all it is? And does that seductive fantasy path being fed by others change it from fantasy to reality?
 
ric27 said:
Maybe, you should calm down a bit and accept the fact that many, many crimes go unsolved or go undetected
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I'll try Rick. ;)

Of course this post had nothing to do with crimes that go unsolved or undetected, but still . . .
 
Serious exploration into the changes that socializing on the Internet is causing should be undertaken.

For the first time, a primary socialization of people is often anonymous, worldwide and allows a person to express their fantasies, fantasy self, and the hear and socialize with others also doing so - emotions and thoughts previously having no verbal or interactive outlet. This technology opens areas of human nature never before with any outlet or real applications.

Does this allow people to vent? Do people increasingly get sucked into their fantascies - including dark, sadistic or violent ones? Seduced by the dark or bright fantascies and thoughts of others? Cause a person to increasingly become their inner unrestrained thoughts or to become those of others in some social network? Does it cause a person to divide into two or multiple personalities, confusingly intermixed with their real life? Does a person find their cyberworld self and social communication friends more attractive and increasingly lives their life in cyberworld?

This case raises the obvious complex question of did he really mean this? Would he really have done it? Was this some bizarre back-and-forth escalation of a bizarrity sadistic words and fantasy contest that was really just words and nothing more? Or was he really plotting to do such things? Was he and the interactions on the internet exposing the reality he was actually headed towards? Was he being sucked to that reality by having this interactive release - and the gratifying interaction with others - having changed him in ways that with that interaction he never would have?

We all know that people post and say things to others on the forum it unlikely would ever say to anyone in real life. So, then, are these internet words "real?" about each of us? Or are they just words and releases we otherwise cannot do - harmlessly so?

Strangely, the crime he is charged with it the crime of expressing his thoughts not expecting them to come back at him in his reality self. Police often seize computers and thus "prove" the person is overall bizarre, anti-social, decadent, abnormal etc. But is having bizarre, anti-social, decadent and abnormal thoughts and expressions with other really proof of anything about the person?
 
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MaggieD said:
I'll try Rick. ;)

Of course this post had nothing to do with crimes that go unsolved or undetected, but still . . .
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Faces you see, hearts you don't know.

The so-called normal ones can murder with no remorse and...can easily go undetected
 
joko104 said:
Serious exploration into the changes that socializing on the Internet is causing should be undertaken.

For the first time, a primary socialization of people is often anonymous, worldwide and allows a person to express their fantasies, fantasy self, and the hear and socialize with others also doing so - emotions and thoughts previously having no verbal or interactive outlet. This technology opens areas of human nature never before with any outlet or real applications.

Does this allow people to vent? Do people increasingly get sucked into their fantascies - including dark, sadistic or violent ones? Seduced by the dark or bright fantascies and thoughts of others? Cause a person to increasingly become their inner unrestrained thoughts or to become those of others in some social network? Does it cause a person to divide into two or multiple personalities, confusingly intermixed with their real life? Does a person find their cyberworld self and social communication friends more attractive and increasingly lives their life in cyberworld?

This case raises the obvious complex question of did he really mean this? Would he really have done it? Was this some bizarre back-and-forth escalation of a bizarrity sadistic words and fantasy contest that was really just words and nothing more? Or was he really plotting to do such things? Was he and the interactions on the internet exposing the reality he was actually headed towards? Was he being sucked to that reality by having this interactive release - and the gratifying interaction with others - having changed him in ways that with that interaction he never would have?

We all know that people post and say things to others on the forum it unlikely would ever say to anyone in real life. So, then, are these internet words "real?" about each of us? Or are they just words and releases we otherwise cannot do - harmlessly so?

Strangely, the crime he is charged with it the crime of expressing his thoughts not expecting them to come back at him in his reality self. Police often seize computers and thus "prove" the person is overall bizarre, anti-social, decadent, abnormal etc. But is having bizarre, anti-social, decadent and abnormal thoughts and expressions with other really proof of anything about the person?
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Interesting post. It will be interesting to see how this moves forward. Conspiracy to commit? ?? We all have a dark side. I must admit my dark side doesn't even come close to approaching this guy's . . . nor his compatriots'. Is planning a crime a crime? Or do we have to wait until he actually roasts someone alive?
 
MaggieD said:
Interesting post. It will be interesting to see how this moves forward. Conspiracy to commit? ?? We all have a dark side. I must admit my dark side doesn't even come close to approaching this guy's . . . nor his compatriots'. Is planning a crime a crime? Or do we have to wait until he actually roasts someone alive?
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I am not defending the guy, but was he tangibly planning the crime? Or just fantasizing of such crimes? Do we have to wait and see before doing anything? How "tangible" does his expressed thoughts have to be to cross the line?

I would think it would have to fall under some "conspiracy" theory, yes.

But what if, instead, they has found this in some self diary or journal?

The other prospect is a mental health commitment. That might be more appropriate and a better idea in general.
 
I chalk these kinds of things up to the inevitability of a growing pool of genetic mutations...and the internet.
 
MaggieD said:
Interesting post. It will be interesting to see how this moves forward. Conspiracy to commit? ?? We all have a dark side. I must admit my dark side doesn't even come close to approaching this guy's . . . nor his compatriots'. Is planning a crime a crime? Or do we have to wait until he actually roasts someone alive?
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Conspiracy usually requires at least one conspirator to take a step towards carrying out the plan. So, if the guy in the Op had bid on a crematorium on eBay, mebbe.

I agree with joko -- we have unleashed the hounds of hell and just don't realize it. The FBI already shuttered an entire ISP -- UserNet -- because it sheltered pedophiles. Others have been tagged as well, and I'm not even sure regulating ISPs is the answer.

There is a breed of human who is law abiding EXCEPT when on the net and led to commit vicious, criminal acts by someone else. This machine we're all staring at has a hypnotic effect on some people, and thus, the next Jim Jones will not need to move house to Guyana to orchestrate the murders and suicides of 1,000s of people.

 
joko104 said:
Serious exploration into the changes that socializing on the Internet is causing should be undertaken.

For the first time, a primary socialization of people is often anonymous, worldwide and allows a person to express their fantasies, fantasy self, and the hear and socialize with others also doing so - emotions and thoughts previously having no verbal or interactive outlet. This technology opens areas of human nature never before with any outlet or real applications.

Does this allow people to vent? Do people increasingly get sucked into their fantascies - including dark, sadistic or violent ones? Seduced by the dark or bright fantascies and thoughts of others? Cause a person to increasingly become their inner unrestrained thoughts or to become those of others in some social network? Does it cause a person to divide into two or multiple personalities, confusingly intermixed with their real life? Does a person find their cyberworld self and social communication friends more attractive and increasingly lives their life in cyberworld?

This case raises the obvious complex question of did he really mean this? Would he really have done it? Was this some bizarre back-and-forth escalation of a bizarrity sadistic words and fantasy contest that was really just words and nothing more? Or was he really plotting to do such things? Was he and the interactions on the internet exposing the reality he was actually headed towards? Was he being sucked to that reality by having this interactive release - and the gratifying interaction with others - having changed him in ways that with that interaction he never would have?

We all know that people post and say things to others on the forum it unlikely would ever say to anyone in real life. So, then, are these internet words "real?" about each of us? Or are they just words and releases we otherwise cannot do - harmlessly so?

Strangely, the crime he is charged with it the crime of expressing his thoughts not expecting them to come back at him in his reality self. Police often seize computers and thus "prove" the person is overall bizarre, anti-social, decadent, abnormal etc. But is having bizarre, anti-social, decadent and abnormal thoughts and expressions with other really proof of anything about the person?
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In the case of Valles's computer, what can be proven is that he broke the law in accessing the personal info, including pics, of a hundred women.

My prelim theory is that he meant what he said about his goal of becoming a "professional kidnapper." It's not just a few women he had in his "database." I don't even much care if he really, really would've followed through or whether he was simply indulging his sick fantasies; the fact that he had them and shared them is enough for me to conclude that he's sick. Whether it's "only" anime of a woman being roasted on a spit (and yes, I have seen such anime) or trash-talking on the 'Net, we're talking about a sick, sick man.
 
Pinkie said:
I love Mandy Potimkin, and I watched a lot of "Criminal Minds" because of him, but it is sanitized, dumbed down and does not begin to convey the horror of the crimes the Behavioral Science Unit deals with -- and I myself do not claim to know, either, and don't want to.

I know cops who're friends with the guys involved in catching Danny Rollings, met Oba Chandler's appellate defense attorney, etc. and even this second and third hand brush with EVIL was more than my sanity could well-tolerate.
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Oh, there's stuff I could tell that makes this case look like nothing... but I'm not going to inflict it on you and others, and TBH I wish it was something I didn't know about and I try not to think about it. Real life stuff that really will keep you up at night and haunt you for a lifetime.
 
Goshin said:
You are exactly right. The day I entered law enforcement, I thought utterly depraved people were very rare. Within a few years I had learned, to my regret, that they are not nearly so rare as I might have wished.

The thing is there are people WORSE than this guy, out there loose. I don't THINK this, I KNOW it for an absolute fact.

And people wonder why I view strangers with wary suspicion....
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I had someone in LE tell me once that they suspect a staggering number of those missing are being held by psychos in basements and secret rooms. That this kind of behavior is far more common than many think.

Creeps me out.
 
nota bene said:
In the case of Valles's computer, what can be proven is that he broke the law in accessing the personal info, including pics, of a hundred women.

My prelim theory is that he meant what he said about his goal of becoming a "professional kidnapper." It's not just a few women he had in his "database." I don't even much care if he really, really would've followed through or whether he was simply indulging his sick fantasies; the fact that he had them and shared them is enough for me to conclude that he's sick. Whether it's "only" anime of a woman being roasted on a spit (and yes, I have seen such anime) or trash-talking on the 'Net, we're talking about a sick, sick man.
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It is a crime for a cop to open a law enforcement database without a legitimate purpose, and these databases cannot be opened with a cop ID number. The NYC PD should have tumbled to this evil man about 99 inquiries before it did, IMO.
 
joko104 said:
Anyone who has experienced or observed real sadistic violence by one person against another will not look at life and humanity the same way again.

This also is maybe why some cops become cynical and even intolerant.
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I've dealt with "people" and most people are NOT decent. It's the few good ones around who make the world livable.

Take an animal....an animal does what an animal does. A tiger hunts, eats, and reproduces. It might fight for mating or protection but it does not torture, rape, humiliate, kill for fun. People do. People do very bad things. People do very bad things to defenseless children.
 
Goshin said:
Oh, there's stuff I could tell that makes this case look like nothing... but I'm not going to inflict it on you and others, and TBH I wish it was something I didn't know about and I try not to think about it. Real life stuff that really will keep you up at night and haunt you for a lifetime.
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Ditto on telling even a little of what I saw, heard and experienced in my youth. People think "murder" is the most horrific thing anyone can do, but it's not. Not even close. If I thought it might "wise up people" it'd be worth it. But people already know such things and block them out, plus think it could never happen to them anyway. Yet everyone it happens to thought that too.
 
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What if...? said:
I had someone in LE tell me once that they suspect a staggering number of those missing are being held by psychos in basements and secret rooms. That this kind of behavior is far more common than many think.

Creeps me out.
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There are even isolated communities like that to their own and to whom they capture.
 
I strongly believe most people would do wrong if given an opportunity with little probability of getting caught.

There is a large and strong under-culture of various groups...you have druggies, animal rights lunatics, pro/anti abortion, militia, goths, academics, libertarians, clergy, greenies, motorcycle gangs, organized crime, disorganized crime, gamblers, pedophiles, pro athletes, snowboarders, skate boarders, heavy metal ****heads et al who look to hurt people every possible way with ZERO remorse...NO feelings whatsover

Most here wouldn't be able to accept, the *human side* of perversity that I've seen.....
 
joko104 said:
There are even isolated communities like that to their own and to whom they capture.
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The wierdest thing is how many COUPLES get caught for this.

*shivers*
 
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