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Thread: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Well I am from Arizona and I will say I voted against the Bill.
    Yet, how soon people forget that Utah signed a similar bill

    Even our Republican Gov is not in favor and has vetoed a bill that would "In May, Arizona's Republican Governor Jan Brewer vetoed a state bill calling on Washington to relinquish the title to 48,000 square miles, "

    So just because some extreme individuals get a bill on the ballot does not mean it will pass.
    As a fellow Arizonan I have to ask, what was your rationale for voting against it?

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Hopefully Arizonans vote for yes,Let states decide and pay for running parks and how much of it they actually want to designate as a park lands.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Hopefully Arizonans vote for yes,Let states decide and pay for running parks and how much of it they actually want to designate as a park lands.
    The US Constitution does not allow for Arizona to do this and it gives Congress full authority over Federal Lands "The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

    Also the agreement that created Arizona as a state specifically stated that they gave up "ďall right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States"

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    As a fellow Arizonan I have to ask, what was your rationale for voting against it?
    The state does not have the finances to manage and protect the public lands if all were turned over to them. (Let's take wildfire for example. The State for years has lacked sufficient funds to even protect State Lands in the event of a large fire. For the most part they look to financial relief from the Feds. (how do I know, from 89 till I retired I managed fire operations for BLM in Arizona. We worked closely with the State).

    They talk about improved Forest Management. The current staff levels in State Forestry is not enough manage the lands they currently have. The idea of turning over to private interest to cover/manage part of the newly aquired lands is not in the publics best interest (imo)

    The ideal of eventually selling off or turning over public land to private interests is a disservice to all who live in the US. Once it is sold, it is gone from the public sector.

    The State Lawmakers already rob Park and Rec revenues to pay for other projects to the point Towns and local groups of volunteers are used to keep some State Parks open more (Tonto Natural Bridge as an example).

    Since you asked the question , I will guess you are for it or leaning towards being in favor. IMO, it is a poorly constructed law with no forthought that if it happened how the State would actually manage the new lands.

    So if you are for it, why?

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Hopefully Arizonans vote for yes,Let states decide and pay for running parks and how much of it they actually want to designate as a park lands.
    JR. most of the time we are in agreement when it comes to State issues. However, the bill is more than just Parks. It is an attempt to take most of the Federal Lands (National Forest, Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service). There is some exceptions.

    It is a poorly written bill without any long term impact thought out. So as an Arizona resident. I for one think the State Leg. is a bit out of line with this one.

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    The state does not have the finances to manage and protect the public lands if all were turned over to them. (Let's take wildfire for example. The State for years has lacked sufficient funds to even protect State Lands in the event of a large fire. For the most part they look to financial relief from the Feds. (how do I know, from 89 till I retired I managed fire operations for BLM in Arizona. We worked closely with the State).

    They talk about improved Forest Management. The current staff levels in State Forestry is not enough manage the lands they currently have. The idea of turning over to private interest to cover/manage part of the newly aquired lands is not in the publics best interest (imo)

    The ideal of eventually selling off or turning over public land to private interests is a disservice to all who live in the US. Once it is sold, it is gone from the public sector.

    The State Lawmakers already rob Park and Rec revenues to pay for other projects to the point Towns and local groups of volunteers are used to keep some State Parks open more (Tonto Natural Bridge as an example).

    Since you asked the question , I will guess you are for it or leaning towards being in favor. IMO, it is a poorly constructed law with no forthought that if it happened how the State would actually manage the new lands.

    So if you are for it, why?
    My primary concern is the rather antagonistic relationship AZ now has with the Fed and how I would much prefer that the Feds no longer hold as much leverage over the state as they do. I'm also a big proponent of opening up lands for timbering. Having lived in the Boise area for a number of years I feel like I have a pretty good familiarity with what to expect from controlled growth forests and, frankly, I liked what I saw. Managed forests didn't get devastated like so many of the unmanaged ones did in Idaho.

    I also have serious concerns about water management and feel that we have a terrific body highly capable water folks here in AZ. It's actually one area where I see the hassling between the "econazi's" on the left and the "industrial robber barons" on the right serving the public really well. I have a sneaking suspicion that if left to our own devices Arizona would have a better water management program than anything that the federal government has concocted.

    Essentially, I just believe that Arizonans will be better stewards of their lands than that gaggle from DC will ever be.

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Over 40% of the state is federally owned - geesh. I actually get the state's issue with that.
    Indeed, 60% of the state is now endangered.

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Indeed, 60% of the state is now endangered.
    Endangered how?

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The Grand Canyon is a NATIONAL Park, the land belongs to the Federal Govt. How much money is Arizona going to offer to buy that land? I'd say 50% of all State residents income for the next 25 years might do it. Start saving now.
    This isn't about the Grand canyon specifically - that's just the partisan twist. It's about the people of the state being able to control the resources of the state.

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Essentially, I just believe that Arizonans will be better stewards of their lands than that gaggle from DC will ever be.
    Agreed. Not to mention the Colorado River will still be multistate giving the feds effective legislative control over the GC.

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    Re: Arizonans to vote on taking Grand Canyon, other lands from federal control

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Agreed. Not to mention the Colorado River will still be multistate giving the feds effective legislative control over the GC.
    Yeah. There's concern about Uranium mining near the canyon but that mining has been going on for years and the contamination level of the Colorado is no higher than it naturally is from carrying Uranium that has eroded naturally.
    Uranium mining ban near Grand Canyon all politics, no science - Wry Heat

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