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Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Take it you're not a big fan of property rights then, either.

Tell me, what kind of rights do you support, Libertarian?

I'm all for property rights, but you don't have a pass because of it for killing someone for doing nothing.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Well I'm sure that is how a civilized society works.

Yes, and that is why civilized societies make abortions legally accessible.

Who said anything about fairness? In terms of fairness, it makes no sense to say its more fair to allow the woman to kill whatever she pleases than to make her carry the child to term.

Abortion is not about allowing a woman to kill whatever she pleases than to make her carry the child to term.

Abortion is about a woman making a willful choice to terminate a pregnancy for whyever reason she chooses.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

If it is present inside your body against your wishes, its very presence is a violation.

There is a point at which "it" isn't "inside your body" but a part of your body. Does the left arm have greater rights than the right arm? If not how does one part of the body have a right over another?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Well I'm sure that is how a civilized society works.



Who said anything about fairness? In terms of fairness, it makes no sense to say its more fair to allow the woman to kill whatever she pleases than to make her carry the child to term.

hmmm i disagree there is totally a logical argument for that.

One is an already born viable human being citizen the other is an unknown

i think its very fair to let the woman decide in this case, especially since the alternative is to force her against her will to risk her health and life, go through 9 months of possible and probably torture, give up her rights, freedoms and liberties.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

There is a point at which "it" isn't "inside your body" but a part of your body. Does the left arm have greater rights than the right arm? If not how does one part of the body have a right over another?

this isnt even close to a parallel at all on any level BUT if you think this is some how on some planet a logical analogy, guess what, I can decided to chop off my arm right now :shrug:
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Yes, and that is why civilized societies make abortions legally accessible.

The word "civilized" in this case would detail protecting life from the aggression of others. What you are talking about is the exact opposite of that.

Abortion is not about allowing a woman to kill whatever she pleases than to make her carry the child to term.

Abortion is about a woman making a willful choice to terminate a pregnancy for whyever reason she chooses.

Which as I said, is giving her a pass to kill the child for whatever way she chooses. I don't really understand why you decided to argue my point, but ok.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

I have a honest question for everyone,

say abortion was illegal and a woman was raped and the pregnancy killed her

should the rapist now be charged with some type of murder? involuntary etc doesnt matter, should the rapist be charged with murder?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

The word "civilized" in this case would detail protecting life from the aggression of others. What you are talking about is the exact opposite of that.

No, what I am talking about is allowing women to live their lives as they choose.



Which as I said, is giving her a pass to kill the child for whatever way she chooses. I don't really understand why you decided to argue my point, but ok.

No, it's giving her a pass to terminate a pregnancy she doesn't want.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

If I cannot remove unwanted organisms from my body, I do not have control over my body.

Sure you do. You just don't have control over the other body. Removing the other human kills them, and you can't own another human. You can't aggress against another human without violating their rights. Your rights always end where another's begins, and all men are created equal and possess certain human rights from the moment they come into being.

Over 99% of the time, there was a point where your wants regarding engaging in actions that could obviously spontaneously create a new human had a time to be addressed. You chose to engage in behavior that creates kids, and then hey, guess what, you created a kid. Personal responsibility and accountability more than trumps the other concerns.



The only time this rhetoric of yours has even potential relevance is with the fraction of a fraction of a percent of pregnancies that are claimed to be secondary to rape. And even then, it's still a weak basis for an argument. It's hard to say that one somehow loses control of their body because of pregnancy. Still, even with a weak basis, with enough demagoguery, a rape exception is hard to avoid as a compromise political position.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

When two conjoined twins who cannot be separated because they have only one necessary vital organ, does one have a greater right than the other to the organs? Cannot one twin force the other to be killed? Why not? How is that different than a pregnant woman---two brains, two hearts.....what gives one brain and heart a moral right to destroy the other but would not give one conjoined twin the moral right to destroy the other?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

1.)The word "civilized" in this case would detail protecting life from the aggression of others. What you are talking about is the exact opposite of that.



2.)Which as I said, is giving her a pass to kill the child for whatever way she chooses. I don't really understand why you decided to argue my point, but ok.

1.)so stripping a woman of rights, freedoms and liberties and then forcing her to risk her life and health against her will is not an aggression?
riiiiiiiiiiiiight

2.)and not giving her the choice is giving the government a pass to kill her :shrug: she will be forced to risk her life
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

No, it's giving her a pass to terminate a pregnancy she doesn't want.

1069 for all her failings always had an interesting argument about this.

And it was basically, especially in the case of rape.

If the government can force you to carry that organism inside of you against your will, force you to carry it to term, force you to give birth to it and then force you to raise it, than essentially it means women have no bodily Sovereignty whatsoever and were basically child bearers of the state.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

People will do as they please regardless what the law says....can we forget about this now. There is to many people replying at once with different things. I think I read something earlier about a parrot? anyways. Enough guys.

Everything changes when it happens to YOU. guy screws girl. She gets pregnant. HES LIKE OH **** ABORT. She said OMGSH My mom wants to be a grandma I can't get rid of it, its my baby! OR vice versa. For example. I don't even believe in abortion, and if my girlfriend got pregnant I would probly tell her to abort if she didn't want to have it. I'm not ready to be a dad in my opinion. SO i would change my views at the moment when faced with it. Even tho the right thing to do is be a man and handle my business and take responsibility for my actions.

The bible is full of amazing information. The reason God says to be married before you have sex is because if you are married you are more then likely ready for children if you took that step. Which means you will be ok if that happens. God is just trying to protect his children, not stop them from having fun.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

No, what I am talking about is allowing women to live their lives as they choose.

Yes, and in order to do that they are getting a pass to inflict violence on others. The only way that this could be civilized is if she was going to die without doing it. Convenience, in which you are arguing for, is just permitting violence for nothing more than the chance to inflict violence.


No, it's giving her a pass to terminate a pregnancy she doesn't want.

Which is giving her a pass to kill the child, just because she doesn't want it around.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

I am truly a slave of the state - the government forces me to refrain from killing you right now.

:roll:
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Everything changes when it happens to YOU.

No, it really didn't. If you abandon your principles the moment they become inconvenient, you never had principles. We weren't ready and we had some hard times making ends meet.

How awesome is my unplanned kid? So awesome.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

I wish more GOP policitians felt this strongly.

Unfortunately most GOP politicians campaign as pro-life and then completely forget about the issue once they are inaugerated.

fortunately most americans are smarter than that politician, understand america better and care about their fellow american more
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Yes, and in order to do that they are getting a pass to inflict violence on others. The only way that this could be civilized is if she was going to die without doing it. Convenience, in which you are arguing for, is just permitting violence for nothing more than the chance to inflict violence.




Which is giving her a pass to kill the child, just because she doesn't want it around.

dishonesty at its finest, two sides to the coin you only see one either by choice or ignorance
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

I am truly a slave of the state - the government forces me to refrain from killing you right now.

:roll:

everbody educated on the topic at hand who is rational, honest and objective knows this is a meaningless statement and is a failed analogy on just about every intelligent level
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

No, it really didn't. If you abandon your principles the moment they become inconvenient, you never had principles. We weren't ready and we had some hard times making ends meet.

How awesome is my unplanned kid? So awesome.
my unplanned kid is awesome too and i got full sole custody.

guess what, i still wanted her to get an abortion at the time and would never ever think its ok to force my views on others and make abortion illegal :shrug:
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Yes, and in order to do that they are getting a pass to inflict violence on others. The only way that this could be civilized is if she was going to die without doing it. Convenience, in which you are arguing for, is just permitting violence for nothing more than the chance to inflict violence.

Yes, because I think the violence of terminating a pregnancy is better than the violence that ensues when a zygote or fetus takes nutrition from the mother without the mother's consent, or the violence that ensues when the state attempts enforcement to prevent a woman from terminating a pregnancy.


Which is giving her a pass to kill the child, just because she doesn't want it around.

Which is allowing her to terminate a pregnancy that she wants no part of.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

my unplanned kid is awesome too and i got full sole custody.

guess what, i still wanted her to get an abortion at the time

Considering that you wanted her dead, you really have no business having custody. What a shame. Maybe she'll turn out okay anyway.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

1069 for all her failings always had an interesting argument about this.

And it was basically, especially in the case of rape.

If the government can force you to carry that organism inside of you against your will, force you to carry it to term, force you to give birth to it and then force you to raise it, than essentially it means women have no bodily Sovereignty whatsoever and were basically child bearers of the state.

And she would be absolutely right.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

1.)so stripping a woman of rights, freedoms and liberties and then forcing her to risk her life and health against her will is not an aggression?
riiiiiiiiiiiiight

Liberty is the idea that we can do whatever it is that we want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of another. Unfortunately, your argument on that front doesn't work.

Rights stop where others begin, so that is another failed part of your argument.

and te last part I already dealt with.

2.)and not giving her the choice is giving the government a pass to kill her :shrug:

No, it is not.

she will be forced to risk her life

I guess so.
 
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