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Thread: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    To play devil's advocate, one could say the former but not the latter, because God would not intentionally harm someone.
    Depending on one's belief system, that could be reasonable to argue. That said...I don't think the traditional Christian Belief System...what with plagues and floods and other such things that harmed people. You can also kind of see my earlier post in here to see a way one may interprit "god's plan" while still believing there's free will (namely, Free Will is part of The Plan) so he didn't directly CAUSE the harm but the harm happening and the consequences of it are still all part of the overall "plan" .

    But yes, that's the issue with judging peoples thought processes. Unless one actually had a good understanding of them...and you're NEVER going to have that by reading a few newspaper blurbs...it's hard to HONESTLY comment about them in anything other than an emotional biased fashion because you just don't have the data to acurately comment.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    It's disgusting in the sense that it's essentially saying that this horrible act wasn't committed by some terrible, evil person, but was actually done by God, and because it was God's plan, you should just accept it.
    Disagree entirely. This is part of what I mean in my last post regarding people appying hteir own biases, making assumptions, and then judging off that due to complete lack of informatoin.

    It can just as easily be saying that the horrible act that was committed was horrible, as was the person doing it, but that all things happen for a reason as part of gods plan and that as horrible and terrible as the act was, the consequences or reprucussions of it are their own thing and they may turn out to be positive.

    If you break your ankle as a teen as you're running away from a Bully that was pummeling you, that sucks. If breaking your ankle ends up causing you to have to spend a summer in doors, that's massively depressing. If spending that summer indoors gives you time to learn how to use a computer so much that you discover a love for it and turn it into a $150,000 a year profession a decade latter, that's great. The fact that your professoin came about in part due to a terrible sucky thing happening to you doesn't mean that the finding of the profession was terrible and sucky inherently.

    That's the general thought process here imho. The RAPE is a horrible, terrible, awful thing. The child, in their mind, came about due to the Rape but is not inherently a "horrible, terrible, awful thing". What people are doing, through their own biases, assumptions, and feeling and are trying to suggest that somehow because he's saying the child isn't a horrible, terrible, awful thing that he's somehow saying the Rape isn't. I simply disagree, and don't see how one can adquettely make such an argument.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Do you find it at least reasonable, even if you don't agree with it, for someone to tell a friend that just lost their job "Keep your head up. It's all part of god's plan and he doesn't send more at us then we can take. It's horrible you lost your job, but I know you'll come out of this in a positive way."
    I'd recognise the friend was trying of offer comfort, but made things worse because a) I know hundreds of case where He sent more than people were able to cope with, and b) I refer back to that Camus quote: “For who would dare to assert that eternal happiness can compensate for a single moment's human suffering”



    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Man has free will to act in situations. When given situation X they could choose answers A - B - C. What they choose is not pre-ordained. At the same time though, if the framework of all things is laid out by god, then all things coming from that framework are part of the master plan....and that would include free will. "God's" Will, if you would, was that you'd have Free Will. And because god is timeless and all knowing, he exists outside of time and thus knows which answer you choose far in advance while at the same time allows you to choose it.
    You see, that is an excellent explanation of some Christian takes on the issue of Free Will, but that isn't the Calvinist take on it. Divine Sovereignty implies that God both can and does plot the life path of all humans, preordains the outcome and will not take into account the 'goodness' or 'badness' of any individual's actions, because those actions are already predestined.

    Think of God a viewer of a Reality Show (Why do I feel I'm opening myself up to hate mail for that ).

    The reality show is a carefully planned house with multiple people in it. The people, items in the house, and external events that happen are all carefully planned to make certain situations, events, or choices more likely to occur. However, ultimately, within the house itself each person on the show has free will to make their choices of what to do in the house.
    Again, not an explanation of Calvinist thinking. Arminianist perhaps, Lutheran or Thomist perhaps, but not Calvinist.

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    To play devil's advocate, one could say the former but not the latter, because God would not intentionally harm someone.
    Unless God is omnipotent and omniscient, then He is the agent of all things, both good and bad.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Disagree entirely. This is part of what I mean in my last post regarding people appying hteir own biases, making assumptions, and then judging off that due to complete lack of informatoin.

    It can just as easily be saying that the horrible act that was committed was horrible, as was the person doing it, but that all things happen for a reason as part of gods plan and that as horrible and terrible as the act was, the consequences or reprucussions of it are their own thing and they may turn out to be positive.

    If you break your ankle as a teen as you're running away from a Bully that was pummeling you, that sucks. If breaking your ankle ends up causing you to have to spend a summer in doors, that's massively depressing. If spending that summer indoors gives you time to learn how to use a computer so much that you discover a love for it and turn it into a $150,000 a year profession a decade latter, that's great. The fact that your professoin came about in part due to a terrible sucky thing happening to you doesn't mean that the finding of the profession was terrible and sucky inherently.

    That's the general thought process here imho. The RAPE is a horrible, terrible, awful thing. The child, in their mind, came about due to the Rape but is not inherently a "horrible, terrible, awful thing". What people are doing, through their own biases, assumptions, and feeling and are trying to suggest that somehow because he's saying the child isn't a horrible, terrible, awful thing that he's somehow saying the Rape isn't. I simply disagree, and don't see how one can adquettely make such an argument.
    I just think it's dangerous to say that whatever tragic event it might be, God intended it.

    Even if this type of logic is used consistently, it's still dangerous.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    When an overwhelming majority of women, of child bearing age, agree that it's perfectly reasonable to expect (and "force through penalty of law") that any woman should have to carry a baby that's conceived through rape to term, and deliver it, then I'll be willing to listen to the argument.

    As of now, when it's mostly men making that argument - well, it's obvious it's complete insanity and ignorance.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    When an overwhelming majority of women, of child bearing age, agree that it's perfectly reasonable to expect (and "force through penalty of law") that any woman should have to carry a baby that's conceived through rape to term, and deliver it, then I'll be willing to listen to the argument.

    As of now, when it's mostly men making that argument - well, it's obvious it's complete insanity and ignorance.
    Why are you making excuses to not think? You couldn't even be arsed to think of an argument that flows logically.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    And if it gets aborted, God intended that too.

    Thank God for Abortion.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I don't think that's true. Although I disagree with their views, and Akin said a lot that was just factually wrong, I can understand the reasoning behind their views and I think they are logically consistent. I also don't believe they've descended anywhere near the levels of madness as blowing up schools and assassinating 11 year olds.
    But murdering abortion Doctors is OK? There is no difference between the radicals of any religion. After all they all believe they speak for God.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    I met someone yesterday who was a rape baby per her. Not really sure what to say when someone just randomly drops that bomb.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And if it gets aborted, God intended that too.

    Thank God for Abortion.
    I believe that us knowing that we make decisions for ourselves is far more important than subscribing to the idea that a supernatural being has our lives all figured out ahead of time and divines everything around. There's no basket of loaves and fishes here in reality. There are no healing magical cures for the ailing. In real life - none of that exists.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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