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Thread: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Your disagreement is irrelevant. If a government codifies a principle or mission statement into law, it's suddenly quite concrete.
    Where did you get that silly idea from? The government can the principle that unicorns are real into law all they want, unicorns will remain imaginary.

    furthermore, just because people want to arbitrarily call something a natural right doesn't mean it actually is a natural right. For example, people have this mythical idea that a natural right to life exists. Nothing could be further from the truth. The one thing we know for certain is that nature has made it very clear that we do not have a right to life. If we did, there'd be no such thing as death. We'd all live forever.

    But we don't live forever. Nature doesn't allow it.

    It can't be a natural right if the only thing that we can guarantee about it is that it will definitely be lost at some time.
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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    And what if it is not?
    Even if natural rights do exist in reality, there is no way of being 100% certain that the things which receive that label are part of that group, or if it is merely wishful thinking on our parts which puts it within that group.
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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Where did you get that silly idea from? The government can the principle that unicorns are real into law all they want, unicorns will remain imaginary.

    furthermore, just because people want to arbitrarily call something a natural right doesn't mean it actually is a natural right. For example, people have this mythical idea that a natural right to life exists. Nothing could be further from the truth. The one thing we know for certain is that nature has made it very clear that we do not have a right to life. If we did, there'd be no such thing as death. We'd all live forever.

    But we don't live forever. Nature doesn't allow it.

    It can't be a natural right if the only thing that we can guarantee about it is that it will definitely be lost at some time.
    Ah, the old no protections exist in nature and therefore there is no such thing as natural rights. Of course, that argument is ignoring that protections has nothing to do with the theory and merely why the state is needed.

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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Utter absurdity. If the elements we are protecting exist in reality than we can protect them just as easily as long as a way towards those ends exists. Since both exists it hardly matters if the premise behind the idea of rights actually makes any sense in the natural world as the elements it is made up exist and therefore it is a moot point. In short, your protest is one that has really no reason to be said. Unless of course you just wish to turn the thread into a natural rights debate. However then it would be far to obvious the only reason you are interested is to limit protections.
    Nonsense. There is no way of knowing when we have accurately discovered a natural right and when we have arbitrarily labeled something as one.

    Most of the time, at least. We already know for certain that one thing which has been labeled as a "natural right" has been inaccurately labeled as such because it is a contradiction of nature to label it a "natural right".
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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Please cite to me the natural rights philosopher who said that in order to respect a human right to life we must all be immortals.

    I'm sort of thinking you're a bit unfamiliar with the concept, Tucker. No one said you have to agree with the concept, but it would be nice if you understood what you were criticizing.

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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Ah, the old no protections exist in nature and therefore there is no such thing as natural rights. Of course, that argument is ignoring that protections has nothing to do with the theory and merely why the state is needed.
    False. I'm not talking about protections, I'm talking about certainty within nature itself. No protection can possibly exist which prevents nature from taking its course. We can imagine and codify as many protections as we want and nature will not be deterred.
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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Please cite to me the natural rights philosopher who said that in order to respect a human right to life we must all be immortals.
    Natural rights philosophers do not define reality. We're discussing facts, not opinions. It is a fact that a natural right to life cannot possibly exist.

    I'm sort of thinking you're a bit unfamiliar with the concept, Tucker. No one said you have to agree with the concept, but it would be nice if you understood what you were criticizing.
    I'm quite familiar with the concept. Did I say anything about laws, society, customs or beliefs? Of course not. Nothing at all about what I'm saying relates to positive law in any way.

    I'm not disagreeing with the concept of natural rights, I'm disagreeing with one particular thing that most of them have mistakenly described as a natural right. I've done this by showing logically how it cannot possibly be a natural right.

    It's not my fault that many natural rights philosophers failed to fully vet their premises on their claims about a natural right to life.
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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Oh my..... Another thread on this? Look people it should not suprise anyone a Christian thinking that something was planned by God. Thats basically the backbone of Christian religion. Anyone suprised needs to wake up. Its really not news.

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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanjames1791 View Post
    Oh my..... Another thread on this? Look people it should not suprise anyone a Christian thinking that something was planned by God. Thats basically the backbone of Christian religion. Anyone suprised needs to wake up. Its really not news.
    Having a happy, carefree life is not the model life or goal of life in the Bible or in Christianity. Life is a collection of trials and temptations in most of Christianity.

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    Re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Natural rights philosophers do not define reality. We're discussing facts, not opinions. It is a fact that a natural right to life cannot possibly exist.
    this fact will be ignored by the willfully ignorant and dishonest. Why? because it proves all their BS wrong
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