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Thread: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But there's still emotional trauma to the mother with that that can continue long after the pregnancy and birth.
    We have ways to deal with that do we not?

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I don't think they're saying rape is Gods intention (this comes from not having read the OP at all, just the thread title), rather that God wants the life conceived, regardless of how it was conceived.
    I understand that and made a mistake in my answer.

    Okay, but here's a problem with the position that these speakers are taking: if the consequence of the rape is a pregnancy, and that pregnancy can be argued to be a part of God's intention, how can the rape not also have been a part of God's intention too? Calvinists believe that God ordains all things, that man has no Free Will and that all things are pre-ordained, and that God's Divine Providence is present in all actions. I've never had a Calvinist explain to me how evil actions can be removed from that Divine Providence. If a rapist is subject to that determinism too, how can evil actions be divorced from God's intention?

    Maybe this is moving the topic into more theoretical philosophical territory than the OP intended, but unless you come to grips with these issues of God, man and Free Will, how can you deal with these kind of political/theological/philosophical questions?
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But there's still emotional trauma to the mother with that that can continue long after the pregnancy and birth.
    Or the mother could be fine 20 minutes after the rape and lead a long and happy life with the child, so we'll stick to 9 months of actual harm, rather than a unspecified and arbitrary amount.
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But there's still emotional trauma to the mother with that that can continue long after the pregnancy and birth.
    Not to mention the physical changes, and potential damage to their health from the pregnancy, the medical bills required for the pregnancy, all the ultrasounds, the hospital stay, the midwife, the maternity clothes, the time needed off of work. It's a lot to deal with when that is your choice, and your excited for the baby. So forcing someone to deal with all that right after having to go through what is more than likely the worst experience of her life is just morally wrong. It is not simply a matter of waiting 9 months.
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, God intended it | Reuters



    Honestly, I think it is a reasonable and somewhat consistent position, although I don't agree with it. From the standpoint of someone trying to get elected in a close race with an unusually strong Libertarian candidate to splinter the Republican vote, it was just a stupid thing to say though. If it plays anything like Todd Akin's comment did, Joe Donnelly will take the senate seat from the Republicans in Indiana. I'd pretty much given up hope for the Republicans to take the senate this year anyway. Things looking very good for the GOP in 2014 though.
    What an idiot, I can't believe he said that. Everyone knows that rape doesn't cause pregnancy. The magical elves in the vagina shut everything down.
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Or the mother could be fine 20 minutes after the rape and lead a long and happy life with the child, so we'll stick to 9 months of actual harm, rather than a unspecified and arbitrary amount.
    That is unrealistically limiting the discussion. You can't ignore the emotional suffering that occurred during the rape.

    And no one is fine 20 minutes after a rape, that is ridiculous.
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But there's still emotional trauma to the mother with that that can continue long after the pregnancy and birth.
    Btw, since when is emotional trauma of a crime an excuse to kill? I must of missed something somewhere because I can't remember when that was fine. I surely can't think of how it makes sense either.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Naked hyperbole
    Says someone who's never had to fear the possibility. It's very easy to be cavalier about threats you don't have to face.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Suffice to say that I'm sure defenders of those respective status quos found challenges to them misguided as well, as hey, those folks don't count.
    Except that the "folks" you're defending aren't sentient because they lack the very biological prerequisites to sentience. They don't care whether they live or die, because they literally, physically cannot possibly care. So yes, your prioritization of something that has no more sense nor purpose than a stone is wholly misguided.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    I have never understood how anyone gets that as a takeaway.

    I also don't think you should go shoot some random person on the street. By thinking that, have I forgotten about you? Do I not care about your well-being? Have I limited your rights?
    I have every right to shoot someone that won't leave my house. I certainly have the right to shoot someone whom is hijacking my entire metabolism against my will. Again, by comparing the unborn child to "some random person on the street", you are completely and utterly disregarding the role that the woman plays in this process.

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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, God intended it | Reuters



    Honestly, I think it is a reasonable and somewhat consistent position, although I don't agree with it. From the standpoint of someone trying to get elected in a close race with an unusually strong Libertarian candidate to splinter the Republican vote, it was just a stupid thing to say though. If it plays anything like Todd Akin's comment did, Joe Donnelly will take the senate seat from the Republicans in Indiana. I'd pretty much given up hope for the Republicans to take the senate this year anyway. Things looking very good for the GOP in 2014 though.
    Christ almighty - "God intended for you to be raped" is really how his viewpoint comes across - not just from him . . . but anytime I hear it, that's how it really seems to me. That seems to be their underlying point (since he's all-knowing like people who believe claim he is - he knew it would 'come to this' and there it is - God's will be done)

    This is where people's belief in 'God's will' truly nauseates me.

    How can people hold THAT view and think God is somehow a GOOD force? "all things happen because God wants it to" - well then god can go **** himself and so can all the psycho zealot nutters who want to suck him off.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-24-12 at 09:35 AM.
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    re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I understand that and made a mistake in my answer.

    Okay, but here's a problem with the position that these speakers are taking: if the consequence of the rape is a pregnancy, and that pregnancy can be argued to be a part of God's intention, how can the rape not also have been a part of God's intention too? Calvinists believe that God ordains all things, that man has no Free Will and that all things are pre-ordained, and that God's Divine Providence is present in all actions. I've never had a Calvinist explain to me how evil actions can be removed from that Divine Providence. If a rapist is subject to that determinism too, how can evil actions be divorced from God's intention?
    From my knowledge of Calvinism, everyone is a sinner, thanks to Adam. He's already chosen the people to be saved, and their actions, evil or good, are irrelevant to their salvation, and so any evil they commit is part of a larger plan.
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