NYPD paid informant to 'bait' Muslims

Deuce said:

No, if you get to make up what we think, we get to make up what you think. You therefore believe that only Christians should be exempt from this. Also you believe the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original.

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Again, I'm okay with baiting them all.

spanky said:

Again, I'm okay with baiting them all.

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Are you one of that team members?

lizzie said:

Wow. That's pretty crappy of law enforcement. It's one thing to build a legitimate case and do a sting operation, but this is just damn low.

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This crap has been staged since 9/11, and broadcast on CNN to bolster their fear campaign.

Terror Alert Level : Blue :roll:

Does that color mean "stay vigilant" or "snitch on your neighbors"? :mrgreen:

Its 1984 all over again.

spanky said:

Again, I'm okay with baiting them all.

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You made up what other people believe, but it's not ok to do that to you? Nice.

lizzie said:

I try to take this approach: If they willingly do this to Muslims, what reason would there be to think they wouldn't do the same to anyone else? I frankly find it disgusting that people in power would do this to anyone, without legitimate cause. Just because someone is Muslim, and we are opposed to Muslim jihadist activity, it is no justification to set them up and entrap them, when they have not demonstrated a history of illegal activity. This kind of crap just fuels the fire on several sides of the issue. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, and innocent until proven guilty, not assumed to be guilty, then set up for a fall.

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Intent and actual ability are two different things.

The FBI has been providing "ability" to knuckleheads who most likely would have been limited to talking **** on the internet on their own.

They should be posing as knucklebeads themselves to draw out ACTUAL jihadists with actual abilities.

But that would require actual police work.

Manufacturing crimes makes busts MUCH easier.

So was the recent arrest of the muslim who intended to blow up the Federal Reserve 'entrapment?'

Maenad said:

So was the recent arrest of the muslim who intended to blow up the Federal Reserve 'entrapment?'

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It certainly appears that way. It is typical of almost ALL the federal prosecutions in the Global War On Terror. Engage some enthusiastic youngster down on his luck, encourage his passionate talk and feelings, and then provide him with fake weapons.

Works very well, and has been demonstrated many times.

Henry David said:

It certainly appears that way. It is typical of almost ALL the federal prosecutions in the Global War On Terror. Engage some enthusiastic youngster down on his luck, encourage his passionate talk and feelings, and then provide him with fake weapons.

Works very well, and has been demonstrated many times.

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So we should have just waited until he blew it up?

Maybe you should refresh yourself on the definition of entrapment:

The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.

entrapment legal definition of entrapment. entrapment synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The guy who was going to blow up the Federal Reserve was on FB soliciting a terrorist network to facilitate his crime. He just got unlucky enough to have solicited the wrong people. That is NOT entrapment. He was definitely disposed to do the crime, was planning it, and was seeking help in doing so. That does NOT meet the definition of entrapment.

You sound like a terrorst sympathizer.

Maenad said:

So we should have just waited until he blew it up?

Maybe you should refresh yourself on the definition of entrapment:

The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.

entrapment legal definition of entrapment. entrapment synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The guy who was going to blow up the Federal Reserve was on FB soliciting a terrorist network to facilitate his crime. He just got unlucky enough to have solicited the wrong people. That is NOT entrapment. He was definitely disposed to do the crime, was planning it, and was seeking help in doing so. That does NOT meet the definition of entrapment.

You sound like a terrorst sympathizer.

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Please pardon my skepticism of government press releases and official statements. It is, after all, 11 years POST 11 September, and the mendacity of the government and its coverup stinks more today than it did then.

That said, yes, it is entirely possible this young man was hellbent on blowing up the Fed. Whether he would ever have succeeded on his own is highly unlikely, all things considered.

And, if he was hellbent on doing this, then YES, the FBI did the right thing, no doubt.

But the FBI is merely another federal bureaucracy, NOT ABOVE feathering its own nest, if you get my drift.

Henry David said:

Please pardon my skepticism of government press releases and official statements. It is, after all, 11 years POST 11 September, and the mendacity of the government and its coverup stinks more today than it did then.

That said, yes, it is entirely possible this young man was hellbent on blowing up the Fed. Whether he would ever have succeeded on his own is highly unlikely, all things considered.

And, if he was hellbent on doing this, then YES, the FBI did the right thing, no doubt.

But the FBI is merely another federal bureaucracy, NOT ABOVE feathering its own nest, if you get my drift.

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Hellbent is not in the legal definition of anything legal. The requirement is 'reasonable suspicion.' I posted the legal definition of entrapmet for you. Entrapment is INDUCEMENT by government officials to commit a crime one would not be previously disposed to commit. When someone is on FB soliciting people to be in a terror cell, that constitutes reasonable suspicion. It does not consitute inducement! I think the police played their cards well in order to get this guy incarcerated where he needs to be.

You may be right about that, but so far I am not persuaded by what is known.

The pattern of behavior demonstrated by the FBI so far, over the last 11 years or so, suggests that this is just one more case of their MAKING a case that would never have existed but for the intervention of the agency.

Maenad said:

So we should have just waited until he blew it up?

Maybe you should refresh yourself on the definition of entrapment:

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If they gave the hooked fish a fake bomb, then they said they crashed a "terror case".

If they need a "real terror case" to intimidate people, then they gave a real bomb to the Potential "terrorist". Such as the first WTC bombing in 1993 and OKC bombing in 1995.

TERRY NICHOLS IMPLICATES FBI INFORMANT IN BOMBING
Amazing New Evidence Emerges in Oklahoma Bombing
By Pat Shannan

A recent raid on the one-time home of Terry Nichols has uncovered more evidence implicating federal agents in the bombing of Oklahoma City’s Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995.

A source has told AFP that bomb components discovered at the former home of the OKC bombing accomplice have been linked to a federal informant who investigators believe lied during the trial of Timothy McVeigh, who was executed after his conviction in the bombing.

There are now serious allegations that the FBI, using an informer as a conduit, supplied McVeigh and Nichols with the blasting components the two used to construct explosive devices, one of which may have been employed in the tragic Oklahoma City bombing.


TERRY NICHOLS IMPLICATES FBI INFORMANT IN BOMBING

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So, its not free speech if the facts in news are selectively edited out, that's called propaganda, get it?

See when you selectively purge facts down the memory hole it's Big Brother, that's what Orwell said.

Wake up and smell the fascism already, the way radio censors the news, and the way the GOP owned radio business broadcast as a monopoly of pro-war dogma the last 20 years,

When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a carbomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, theF.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of “inert material,”harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to makethe van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, withMr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched anumber into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust

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Ummmm.. Thats called a setup and scapegoat lol.

Thats like me saying, "I wanna beat the crap out of 50 child molesters." Then the FBI dropping off 50 comatose child molesters on my doorstep and calling the cops. I wonder how much of this is exactly true and how much is assuming via inductive reasoning.

entrapment of law-biding citizens should be illegal.

My faith in America preventing terrorism is dwindling, not because of this issue, but because of the constant fight to stop America from protecting itself.

Wake said:

My faith in America preventing terrorism is dwindling, not because of this issue, but because of the constant fight to stop America from protecting itself.

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Protecting itself from what?

The irony is perverse and cruel, but over these last 11 years as the american people have been "protected" by the government by way of its taking away constitutional rights by way of the so-called Patriot Act, NDAA, and a variety of other poor laws, and as americans think they are being "protected" as they are groped and assaulted by TSA workers, ol' Mother Sandy came along and the government could not protect them from anything.

Its terror alert level "yellow" - which means, I dunno, ah yes -

BUG EVERYONES PHONES :mrgreen:

and call Homeland Security!

This is a newly happened case. As usual, it was guided by the FBI and bomb was supplied. So they could say "there had never been any actual threat".

17 October 2012

US Federal Reserve 'bomb plot' foiled by FBI

US officials have arrested a man for plotting to detonate what he thought was a massive bomb in front of the Federal Reserve building in New York.

Mr Nafis was placed under surveillance, and the undercover FBI agent sold him 20 bags of what he said were 50lb of explosives. The suspect then bought and assembled detonators and timing devices.

Officials said there had never been any actual threat.

Mr Nafis had been closely watched by the FBI
The arrest is the latest in a series of so-called "sting" operations run by the FBI and anti-terror authorities in the US.

BBC News - US Federal Reserve 'bomb plot' foiled by FBI

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Interest information for share.

HOW FEDERAL INFORMANTS WORK

, I will explain how federal informants work and how one can access information on them. I also urge people to stop treating this subject so lightly - rehabilitating actual dangerous informants, while using the term "informant" as a smear.

SNITCH CULTURE

The US Department of Justice employs about 10,000 FBI field agents. FBI regulations require each agent to employ at least 4 confidential informants, and suggest 10 as an appropriate mean. This means that approximately 100,000 Americans work as informants for the FBI. When America's other 32 law enforcement agencies are considered, between 600,000 and 12 million Americans -- perhaps one out of every 200 adults -- works fulltime for the federal government reporting on other Americans.

Informants are paid approximately $400/week for their services. Thus, this profession tends to attract those for whom $1730 a month -- $20,800 a year -- is a substantial incentive. People who are not mentally ill or otherwise living on disability and welfare benefits, or people laboring at the lower echelons of drug organizations, tend to be particular recruitment targets, as are those who are otherwise unemployed. Informants also receive a bonus for convicting others -- generally, they receive $100 for every year of sentence a victim receives -- 20 years is a $2000 bonus, for instance.
…..
Bill White From Prison: How Federal Informants Work - Vanguard News Network Forum

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katsung47 said:

Interest information for share.

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I wonder exactly how many of these informants are willing to pad their own nest and set people up in exchange for legit guv'ment money...


If what is common practice is to pick a bottom rung thug and say "Hey Wanna do a job for me? You get $$$" then arent we and the FBI putting all their trust into bottom rung thugs?

I'm not really sure what the story is here.

There doesn't appear to be any issues entrapment-wise, given the description by the guy at least.

Not a big fan of the whole collecting names of people attending specific "studies", though it really depends on what happens to the names after they are collected, If they are only using the names for cross reference, no problem with that either.

When a Celebrated Activist Turns Out To Be an FBI Informant

Monday, 05 November 2012 16:11
By Trevor Griffey, Truthout | News Analysis

Civil rights activist and Black Panther Party member Richard Aoki. (Photo: oso / flickr)

Richard Aoki was a well-known activist in the San Francisco Bay Area - celebrated for his role as one of only a handful of Asian American members of the Black Panther Party, a leader in UC Berkeley’s Third World Liberation Front in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and a mentor to a generation of left-leaning activists.

So when the journalist Seth Rosenfeld alleged in August 2012 that Aoki was an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Rosenfeld shocked Aoki’s family, friends, and allies. He also sought to shake up how we tell black freedom movement history by playing up the fact that Aoki provided the founders of the Black Panther Party (BPP) with their first guns. In the process, Rosenfeld raised important questions about what it is that informants do and what it means when an ally in struggles against government racism and police repression turns out to be an informant for the government.

Rosenfeld’s allegations were surprising in part because they followed on the heels of the creation of two recent celebratory histories of Richard Aoki’s life. Aoki died in March 2009. In November of that year, activist filmmakers released a history of his work with documentary film, Aoki. And in April, 2012, University of Minnesota Press published a scholarly, 496 page biography of Aoki titled Samurai Among Panthers: Richard Aoki on Race, Resistance, and a Paradoxical Life.

Only four months after the publication of Samurai Among Panthers, Rosenfeld alleged in an August 20 news article that "the man who armed the Black Panthers was FBI informant, records show."

Rosenfeld tread gently on the revered figure’s memory. Having chosen not to share his research with activists or historians beforehand, he announced that "unbeknownst to his fellow activists, Aoki had served as an FBI intelligence informant, covertly filing reports on a wide range of Bay Area political groups." Rosenfeld described asking Aoki directly, during an oral history interview, whether he had been an informant (Aoki denied it). And Rosenfeld twice mentioned in his story that Aoki committed suicide in 2009. Could Aoki have committed suicide out of fear that Rosenfeld would expose him? Rosenfeld didn’t speculate overtly about Aoki’s decision. But he seemed to raise the issue by paying significant attention to the way that Aoki died (something few others have dwelled upon).

When Rosenfeld published this file (FBI Headquarters file 134-10010, or 134-HQ-10010 for short) in response to his critics on September 7, with the story "FBI files reveal new details about informant who armed Black Panthers," he conclusively proved (in my opinion) that Aoki was an informant for the FBI. The only question that remains is what kind of informant Aoki was.

In what follows, I offer a close reading of FBI documents to explain how and why they prove that Aoki was an informant. I also use the documents to draw attention to potential ambiguities in the relationship between Aoki and the FBI, to raise questions that can only be answered with further research and to identify documents whose declassification might help us better understand Aoki’s dual role as informant and activist.
"Informant T-2"

When Seth Rosenfeld first alleged that Aoki was an FBI informant, Rosenfeld had two compelling pieces of evidence. His biggest scoop was that former FBI Agent Burney Threadgill Jr. reportedly told him that Threadgill developed Aoki as an informant in the early 1960s, and that "he was one of the best sources we had." FBI agents rarely if ever disclose the identities of their informants, so the fact that Rosenfeld got Threadgill to go on the record with such information before Threadgill passed away in 2005 is remarkable.

But Rosenfeld still needed corroboration of Threadgill’s claim. And he seemed to find that in a single page of a single FBI document on the Black Panther Party. According to Rosenfeld’s article, "a Nov. 16, 1967, intelligence report on the Black Panthers lists Aoki as an ‘informant’ with the code number 'T-2.' "

Beyond Politics and 9/11 • View topic - When a Celebrated Activist Turns Out To Be an FBI Informant

vendur said:

I'm not really sure what the story is here.

There doesn't appear to be any issues entrapment-wise, given the description by the guy at least.

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The point is: how could the FBI found those potential terrorists and supply cash and bombs to them? To find these people from 300 million US citizens is as hard as to pick up the number in super Lotto. There is only one possibility: that the informants are very popular among people. Everyone is under surveillance.

June 16, 2009
Government-Assisted Terrorists
By Salim Muwakkil

The FBI informant allegedly gave the four men cash, food, rent money and drugs. And he agreed to pay for a sick brother¡¯s liver transplant.

09/06/16 Arrests in New York 'attack plot'


The men were arrested after agreeing to buy missiles and explosives in an undercover operation.

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/8060684.stm>

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Ikari said:

So entrapment should be legal so long as the government tells us that the individual was "hell bent" on doing something?

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Nah! I say we stay with tried and true. As a matter of policy, codified or not, continue to abuse and lie to the public, solicit, fund and arrest! There is nothing new here. let's move on.