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Thread: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debate

  1. #31
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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    That doesn't change my point that there is nothing either of them could do about the problem.

    Any changes need to go through the Congress, not from the President.
    The President has tremendous influence over Congress. How do you think Obamacare came about?
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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    None of those things are have anything to do with the 60,000 Mexicans getting killed.
    The turmoil and deaths have nothing to do with the Drug War? This has no impact on trade and immigration? I strongly disagree. The 60k deaths are the result of a huge problem that is very much US-related.


    Cartels are not going to stop just because another country legalizes certain or all drugs,
    They may not stop completely but such reforms would be a tremendous blow to the cartels just as they were to the mafia after alcohol prohibition.


    especially if they can still export their goods and even when US consumers stop purchasing their drugs they'll find other customers and other things to sell.
    Getting the products out of the black market and into the open market is whats important. People aren't getting their heads cut off by Anheisser-Busch.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    The President has tremendous influence over Congress. How do you think Obamacare came about?
    I don't know what country you live in but maybe the President has influence with members on his side and maybe not even then.

    And what about Obamacare? He had influence over Congressmen to get Obamacare passed?

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I don't know what country you live in but maybe the President has influence with members on his side and maybe not even then.

    And what about Obamacare? He had influence over Congressmen to get Obamacare passed?
    Now its my turn: What country do you live in? Obama had been pushing healthcare reform during his campaign and it was one of the first major pieces of legislation the White House pushed Congress to pass after his election.

    Remarks of President Barack Obama -- Address to Joint Session of Congress | The White House

    So tell me, why would Obama and Clinton have been talking about healthcare reform during their campaigns if they have no influence over such issues as you claim?
    Last edited by Geoist; 10-24-12 at 07:10 PM.
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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Now its my turn: What country do you live in? Obama had been pushing healthcare reform during his campaign and it was one of the first major pieces of legislation the White House pushed Congress to pass after his election.

    Remarks of President Barack Obama -- Address to Joint Session of Congress | The White House

    So tell me, why would Obama and Clinton have been talking about healthcare reform during their campaigns if they have no influence over such issues as you claim?
    That is correct but he did not influence anybody. He had no help from the Republican side. He has no influence on anybody in the Congress, they do what they want.

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    That is correct but he did not influence anybody. He had no help from the Republican side. He has no influence on anybody in the Congress, they do what they want.
    Actually didn't Olympia Snowe vote for it? In any case, he didn't need to try and influence any Republicans to pass it, only Democrats. If giving a speech to Congress isn't an attempt to influence votes I don't know what is.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    I can understand why we haven't. The last thing we need is to create a new little Al Qaeda right across the Mexican border. These people are already good at sneaking into our country with contraband. If we send jets to bomb their facilities they will probably send their people over with bombs instead of weed.
    Not only that, what Fisher apparently does not realize is that with the possible exception of marijuana, Mexico is merely a transhipment point for drugs from further south. Plus, probably more than half the Mexican Army is protecting the trade by way of bribes.

    The ONLY way to end the scourge of prohibition in both countries is to END the prohibition, with pen and paper in Congress. Pen and paper is far better than bombs and machine guns.

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The ONLY way to end the scourge of prohibition in both countries is to END the prohibition, with pen and paper in Congress. Pen and paper is far better than bombs and machine guns.
    I'm not sure that will end it. What happens when pot becomes legitimate? Clean-cut American businessmen begin trying to compete in the market. You think these violent Mexican gangs are going to just let that happen? Them and all the US gangs are just going to become reputable salespeople overnight? That seems unlikely.

    Perhaps American business moguls will win the new war. And then what will all these unemployed former drug lords and dealers do? Become janitors? Go to school? Or will they turn to robbery, dealing meth or synthetic drugs, etc?

    This is a monumental problem, and I don't think there are any good ways to fix it.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    I'm not sure that will end it. What happens when pot becomes legitimate? Clean-cut American businessmen begin trying to compete in the market. You think these violent Mexican gangs are going to just let that happen? Them and all the US gangs are just going to become reputable salespeople overnight? That seems unlikely.

    Perhaps American business moguls will win the new war. And then what will all these unemployed former drug lords and dealers do? Become janitors? Go to school? Or will they turn to robbery, dealing meth or synthetic drugs, etc?

    This is a monumental problem, and I don't think there are any good ways to fix it.
    As we learned with alcohol prohibition, it is driven by money, profit and greed. Prohibiting any particular consumer item simply raises its retail price. Where pot and cocaine and other illegal drugs have minimal inherent value, prohibiting them creates and black market, and they are suddenly worth 10 or 20 times of more their inherent value.

    So too, as we saw in 1934, ending the prohibition ends the black market, and the prices of the products come back to a reasonable figure.

    Mark Thornton wrote a good book about it in 1991 called The Economics Of Prohibition. It explains the dynamics very well.

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    Re: With 60,000 dead, Mexicans wonder why drug war doesn't rate in presidential debat

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    So too, as we saw in 1934, ending the prohibition ends the black market, and the prices of the products come back to a reasonable figure.

    Mark Thornton wrote a good book about it in 1991 called The Economics Of Prohibition. It explains the dynamics very well.
    Ending prohibition ended the black market for alcohol, but as far as I am aware the gangs and criminals of the era did not just disappear or turn to legal activities. The Depression may also have obscured some of the effects of ending it.

    That book sounds interest, I may check it out. I don't disagree that prohibition of these types of things is bad economic policy and encourages crime. I'm more concerned with what happens when the very large and dangerous criminal industry that prohibition of drugs has created suddenly realizes it is in danger of losing its market power.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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