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Thread: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yeah, I can get behind that.

    but ,really, that's what's going to happen when it becomes a political issue ( on many fronts)

    I don't see much sense in torpedoing the Volt... and I don't see much sense in overstating it either.

    the Volt is a pretty cool car... it has promise... but it's ownership costs are way too steep.
    it makes no economic sense to choose a Volt over a Prius or even the Leaf
    ... none.
    And everyone of those cars in bold are subsidized by tax payer dollars. Let them stand on their own without tax payer help and they all would die. How about taking away all subsidies?
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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    And everyone of those cars in bold are subsidized by tax payer dollars. Let them stand on their own without tax payer help and they all would die. How about taking away all subsidies?
    be careful.. don't confuse tax credits with subsidies...

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    be careful.. don't confuse tax credits with subsidies...
    A tax credit is a subsidy. You take the credit and deduct that from the taxes you owe. Is that not tax payer dollars going to subsidize the purchase of a car. Let me ask you, who makes up those dollars that the person keeps in the form of a tax credit. Never mind, I'll answer that, the tax payer. The oil companies that everyone bitches about, what do they call it when they get a tax credit, "subsidy."
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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    A tax credit is a subsidy. You take the credit and deduct that from the taxes you owe. Is that not tax payers dollars going to subsidize the purchase a car. Let me ask you, who makes up those dollars that the person keeps in the form of a tax credit. Never mind, I answer that, the tax payer. The oil companies that everyone bitches about, what do they call it when they get a tax credit, "subsidy."
    subsidies are when the government gives you money as a payment
    tax credits are when you pay the government less in taxes.

    there is a difference.

    I'm all for tax credits... i'm not really kosher with subsidies.

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    subsidies are when the government gives you money as a payment
    tax credits are when you pay the government less in taxes.

    there is a difference.

    I'm all for tax credits... i'm not really kosher with subsidies.
    A subsidy can take different forms, it is not just a direct payment. Oil companies get subsidies in the form of a tax credit. A subside could be in the form of a guarantee of credit. When you subsidize a company you are aiding and assisting that company. Sorry but a subsidy is a tax credit. Either way you don't pay the government 100K that you would owe otherwise, which creates a loss for the government of a 100K, or it gives you 100K which the loss to the government is the exact same amount.
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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Why in the hell do you people march in lockstep with this hate for new technology? Makes no sense. Oh.. by the way:
    the same crowd a hundred years ago was probably against the internal combustion engine. it's best to ignore them and let technological progress win.

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    A subsidy can take different forms, it is not just a direct payment. Oil companies get subsidies in the form of a tax credit. A subside could be in the form of a guarantee of credit. When you subsidize a company you are aiding and assisting that company. Sorry but a subsidy is a tax credit. Either way you don't pay the government 100K that you would owe otherwise, which creates a loss for the government of a 100K, or it gives you 100K which the loss to the government is the exact same amount.
    sorry, I disagree... tax credits and tax deductions are not subsidies...a credit guarantee is, however, a subsidy...as it guarantees or insures a payment.
    subsidies are payments, tax credits/deductions are not payments.

    when people moan about biog oil getting subsidies, that is very misleading, as what they are actually talking about is tax credits/deductions.. not subsidies


    resulting in a similar condition doesn't mean the 2 are the same.
    dying of old age and getting murdered are not the same thing, even though the end result is the same.

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    sorry, I disagree... tax credits and tax deductions are not subsidies...a credit guarantee is, however, a subsidy...as it guarantees or insures a payment.
    subsidies are payments, tax credits/deductions are not payments.

    when people moan about biog oil getting subsidies, that is very misleading, as what they are actually talking about is tax credits/deductions.. not subsidies


    resulting in a similar condition doesn't mean the 2 are the same.
    dying of old age and getting murdered are not the same thing, even though the end result is the same.
    Sorry but we have to agree to disagree, tax credits/deduction to a specific industry is derived from a subsidy. When you subsidize a company it can take many different forms, you can provide some labor in subsidizing a company, or you can subsidize it by giving specific deductions to an industry. You subsidize a company by issuing credit, there are so many ways to subsidize a company or an industry, like the auto. The government is subsidizing it by giving tax credits to buyers of certain cars. It is all a form a subsidy. You try and pull out a tax credit as not a subsidy and leave all the other examples in as a subsidy.

    Sorry but you are incorrect. You have the last word.
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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Sorry but we have to agree to disagree, tax credits/deduction to a specific industry is derived from a subsidy. When you subsidize a company it can take many different forms, you can provide some labor in subsidizing a company, or you can subsidize it by giving specific deductions to an industry. You subsidize a company by issuing credit, there are so many ways to subsidize a company or an industry, like the auto. The government is subsidizing it by giving tax credits to buyers of certain cars. It is all a form a subsidy. You try and pull out a tax credit as not a subsidy and leave all the other examples in as a subsidy.

    Sorry but you are incorrect. You have the last word.
    this is all very interesting....and I don't mind if we disagree.

    I'm confused about something though.... let say you are correct and subsidies are not only payments but foregone tax revenues.

    do you also have a problem with every single US taxpayer not being able to stand on his/her own?

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    Re: Volt No Jolt: LG Chem Employees Idle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yeah, I can get behind that.

    but ,really, that's what's going to happen when it becomes a political issue ( on many fronts)

    I don't see much sense in torpedoing the Volt... and I don't see much sense in overstating it either.

    the Volt is a pretty cool car... it has promise... but it's ownership costs are way too steep.
    it makes no economic sense to choose a Volt over a Prius or even the Leaf ... none.
    Of course it does. It's not like those other hybrids. Other hybrids thus far have been gas engines with an electric assist which increases the mileage. The volt is an electric car with a gas generator to charge the battery. Being a plugin hybrid means you most likely will never use gas unless you plan a road-trip in it. 38 miles per day all electric. I think the breakdown is when burning electricity vs. gas, it's equates to $1.? per gallon.

    I can't think of a reason why someone would have a fleet of cars other than for taxi's and I don't think the Volt would make a great taxi... I can think of a fleet of vans but if there were a need for a fleet of cars... man the $'s you'd save. Especially if you took advantage of the solar bonus' you can get for your biz on your roof and make your own fuel basically.

    There is one thing I worry about though with electric cars... electromagnetic fields. Remember how cities were buying up the land under high intensity power-lines because it was cheap land and then built schools there? Then kids at those schools started getting brain tumors? Well, in the Volt the battery runs down the middle then T's off under the back seat. Don't know what effect prolonged exposure to that electromagnetic field would have on testicles and other soft tissues. That kind of worries me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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