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Thread: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

  1. #71
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Not really. "I don't like gays" carries no merit.
    No, but I don't like gay marriage... Because... Does!



    No it's more to do with fairness to all, not just some.

    And it is this idea of what is fair and what is not, that is at the root of the issue.



    What "long term consequences?"

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend a great deal of time on explaining it to you if you do not already know my well documented views on the subject. To do so would be a massive waste of time. In my experience, people who've made up their minds on this issue, will not change them. Suffice it to say that my argument stems mostly from a breakdown in the family over the last 40 years as leading to the direct result of why our country is as screwed up as it is. Gay marriage would add to that breakdown, it would not solve it, or improve it in any way. Kids need both their mothers and their fathers active in their lives and as direct role models. Uncles and Aunts, and neighbors, or schools do not provide for these needs, and until we decide collectively as a nation to restore these virtues, we're destined to fall even further as a once strong familial based society.



    Nothing wrong with freedom ... fascist.
    Laws are representative of a societies values on justice and punishment. Libertarians, as I explained, just want to be in the drivers seat, as do conservatives and liberals.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Oh gawd not this again?? Show me ANY state issued marriage license and where it says on the license that it is a contract. ANY will do.


    Tim-
    It's a contract, you sign it and in doing so agree to terms. A license is a form of contract.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, but I don't like gay marriage... Because... Does!
    No it doesn't.

    And it is this idea of what is fair and what is not, that is at the root of the issue.
    Not really. Anyone can do what anyone else can works fairly well.

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend a great deal of time on explaining it to you if you do not already know my well documented views on the subject. To do so would be a massive waste of time. In my experience, people who've made up their minds on this issue, will not change them. Suffice it to say that my argument stems mostly from a breakdown in the family over the last 40 years as leading to the direct result of why our country is as screwed up as it is. Gay marriage would add to that breakdown, it would not solve it, or improve it in any way. Kids need both their mothers and their fathers active in their lives and as direct role models. Uncles and Aunts, and neighbors, or schools do not provide for these needs, and until we decide collectively as a nation to restore these virtues, we're destined to fall even further as a once strong familial based society.
    I'd be interested to read these journal articles. Please cite them.


    Laws are representative of a societies values on justice and punishment. Libertarians, as I explained, just want to be in the drivers seat, as do conservatives and liberals.


    Tim-
    Yes. We have a will to power. Nietzsche would be proud.
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  4. #74
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a contract, you sign it and in doing so agree to terms. A license is a form of contract.

    Hehe. I marriage license is a certificate on record with the cival registar that you both meet the eligibility to enter into a marriage contract. Yes, you meet the terms. The marriage certificate is the contract between you an another party reflecting duties and obligations condition precident to fulfill said contract. A marriage license requires no such quid pro quo duty, or responsibility or obligation to enter into the marriage. A drivers license conversly requires that you meet the terms to be able to drive a car. If you fail to meet the laws for operating that vehicle you are subject to punishment. The drivers license is NOT a contract either. It merely says you're eleigble to drive a car. The contract to drive it safely is with you and the common laws of society.

    Any more questions Einstein?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Hehe. I marriage license is a certificate on record with the cival registar that you both meet the eligibility to enter into a marriage contract. Yes, you meet the terms. The marriage certificate is the contract between you an another party reflecting duties and obligations condition precident to fulfill said contract. A marriage license requires no such quid pro quo duty, or responsibility or obligation to enter into the marriage. A drivers license conversly requires that you meet the terms to be able to drive a car. If you fail to meet the laws for operating that vehicle you are subject to punishment. The drivers license is NOT a contract either. It merely says you're eleigble to drive a car. The contract to drive it safely is with you and the common laws of society.

    Any more questions Einstein?


    Tim-
    It gains several dynamics for insurance, income, household, medical, etc advantages. It is the method through which marriage is officially recognized, and it comes in the form of contract.

    A driver's license IS a contract as well. In order to obtain, I must strike contract with the State and agree to operate within their conditions along with several other dynamics mostly related to drunk driving (such as per say). Most certainly a contract.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Poppycock!!Libertarians, like Liberals, and conservatives all draw a line on what is "favorable" and "mature" based on their own goals for society; so please spare me the sanctimony.

    In terms of gay marriage, there are logical arguments from both sides. With liberals, the arguments stem from short term inconsequence to society, with Conservatives, their arguments stem from long term consequences to society. Libertarians on the other hand, on the face, care little about consequences in favor of an all or nothing path to unbridled freedom Both liberal and conservative views are potentially correct, however, a libertarian no holds barred approach to freedom, and liberty, is undoubtedly incorrect.

    Tim-
    Sorry, but pretend libertarians (trying not to accuse anyone) often claim to support gay marriage but only in some unworkable fantasy world that they have not fully considered. It is a way for embarassed Republicans to oppose gay marriage without coming out and saying that they just don't like homosexuality. They use it to rationalize their cynical views on the topic. They do a disservice to all libertarians when they fail to sincerely advance the cause of liberty.

    I have been in the movement for over 20 years and I have read and considered about every different theory as calmly as anyone possibly could. If you want to be spared then don't bother baiting me. If you think you have some sort of ideas that I have failed to consider then articulate them clearly and quit playing games.

    I really don't care that much what you think anybody thinks or even what I THINK anybody thinks. I was only pointing out the frequent mistakes and the shallow thoughts I have come across to encourage deeper discussion/consideration of the issues. There is no reason to hold your cards close to your vest. Tell us what you think. Do you have an argument to offer? You asked...

    Gee I wonder what the pro gay police would say to my views on the topic.. LOL
    Officer BayToBay is here to serve.

    What are your views? I cannot answer you if you don't articulate them. I can help with some questions or you can just tell us what your views are on this case.

    Who will handle the dissolution of marriage contracts or ANY contract if not the courts? Private arbitrators? Can they use sharia? What other sorts of legal standards/traditions can they apply? What if they are challenged? Who is the final arbiter?

    These are the things those presenting immature thoughts either have not considered or are attempting to hide from public consideration. I don't appreciate either approach. I can answer all these questions, because I have considered it and I have no need to hide my views.

    If you think you are going to run me off with some homophobic ad hominem, think again. I don't care what you think about my sexual preferences.

    And BTW, there is no reason your view need not be an evolving one. MAYBE, you will cause mine to evolve. Teach me something new.

  7. #77
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Yes it does..



    Not really. Anyone can do what anyone else can works fairly well.

    I love arguing with true blue libertarians.. Question for you. Should we all be free to use the same bathrooms and change rooms? Now I know you'll say no because noone else is allowed to do that, but then I'd say, well why not? And you say???.....



    I'd be interested to read these journal articles. Please cite them.

    No, but you can look in the sexuality forums. That'd be a good place to start, if you're really interested.




    Yes. We have a will to power. Nietzsche would be proud.

    Can you elaborate?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  8. #78
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Hehe. I marriage license is a certificate on record with the cival registar that you both meet the eligibility to enter into a marriage contract. Yes, you meet the terms. The marriage certificate is the contract between you an another party reflecting duties and obligations condition precident to fulfill said contract. A marriage license requires no such quid pro quo duty, or responsibility or obligation to enter into the marriage. A drivers license conversly requires that you meet the terms to be able to drive a car. If you fail to meet the laws for operating that vehicle you are subject to punishment. The drivers license is NOT a contract either. It merely says you're eleigble to drive a car. The contract to drive it safely is with you and the common laws of society.

    Any more questions Einstein?


    Tim-
    DOMA is still unconstitutional because the Constitution requires a state to respect the laws of the other states, and because the 10th Amendment does not give the right to regulate marriage to the Federal government.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #79
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It gains several dynamics for insurance, income, household, medical, etc advantages. It is the method through which marriage is officially recognized, and it comes in the form of contract.

    A driver's license IS a contract as well. In order to obtain, I must strike contract with the State and agree to operate within their conditions along with several other dynamics mostly related to drunk driving (such as per say). Most certainly a contract.
    See^^^ This is why I shouldn't have wasted my time. My answer is correct and yours is not.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  10. #80
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    DOMA is still unconstitutional because the Constitution requires a state to respect the laws of the other states, and because the 10th Amendment does not give the right to regulate marriage to the Federal government.
    And that might be true, we'll see.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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