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Thread: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

  1. #61
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Read the 14th amendment
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Do Supreme Court Justices make decisions based on public opinion? No. They make decisions based on what the Constitution says and based on precedent.
    Not in the last 12 years they haven't. They are voting according to their own party line. Sometimes they remember what they were hired to do but not often enough.

    2000 election
    Citizens United
    2nd amendment

    etc.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  3. #63
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    It's hilarious how Henrin was attacked for his comments in this thread. He was attacked because all too often the people in pro gay circles are taught to use the very powerful rhetoric at their disposal. What I found funny is that he was attacked first for opposing gay marriage (Which he did not), and then he was attacked for not being a libertarian, (However his position is consistent with Libertarian ideaology).

    Gee I wonder what the pro gay police would say to my views on the topic.. LOL

    Tim-
    You can address me directly as officer baytobay if you like.

    Henrin was not at all clear on his position. I questioned his position. I did not intend to attack him. The lines between those are blurry and it does not appear that you are any sort of impartial referee.

    I am willing to discuss whatever he or you wish to offer as your positions today, tomorrow or three weeks from now. What is your position?

    The position offered by many supposed libertarians (and I do not mean to include any one specific in that) is not consistent with any mature form of libertarian thought.

    The courts have to enforce our contracts. That's what they do. If you want to discuss how it might work in a completely stateless society then I would suggest you read David Friedman. But that is so far from where we are it is hardly relevant except amongst libertarians. Further many would argue that even he supports a type of government or state and that argument is not fully without merit.

    The libertarian position on DOMA must be in opposition to it. The libertarian position on this ruling should be favorable. There is no consistent and coherent libertarian argument that says the state should be able to prejudicially enforce contracts or deny equal protection of the laws.
    Last edited by BayToBay; 10-19-12 at 03:33 PM.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    You can address me directly as officer baytobay if you like.

    Henrin was not at all clear on his position. I questioned his position. I did not intend to attack him. The lines between those are blurry and it does not appear that you are any sort of impartial referee.

    I am willing to discuss whatever he or you wish to offer as your positions today, tomorrow or three weeks from now. What is your position?

    The position offered by many supposed libertarians (and I do not mean to include any one specific in that) is not consistent with any mature form of libertarian thought.

    The courts have to enforce our contracts. That's what they do. If you want to discuss how it might work in a completely stateless society then I would suggest you read David Friedman. But that is so far from where we are it is hardly relevant except amongst libertarians. Further many would argue that even he supports a type of government or state and that argument is not fully without merit.

    The libertarian position on DOMA must be in opposition to it. The libertarian position on this ruling should be favorable. There is no consistent and coherent libertarian argument that says the state should be able to prejudicially enforce contracts or deny equal protection of the laws.
    Poppycock!!

    Libertarians, like Liberals, and conservatives all draw a line on what is "favorable" and "mature" based on their own goals for society; so please spare me the sanctimony.



    In terms of gay marriage, there are logical arguments from both sides. With liberals, the arguments stem from short term inconsequence to society, with Conservatives, their arguments stem from long term consequences to society. Libertarians on the other hand, on the face, care little about consequences in favor of an all or nothing path to unbridled freedom Both liberal and conservative views are potentially correct, however, a libertarian no holds barred approach to freedom, and liberty, is undoubtedly incorrect.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    In terms of gay marriage, there are logical arguments from both sides. With liberals, the arguments stem from short term inconsequence to society, with Conservatives, their arguments stem from long term consequences to society. Libertarians on the other hand, on the face, care little about consequences in favor of an all or nothing path to unbridled freedom Both liberal and conservative views are potentially correct, however, a libertarian no holds barred approach to freedom, and liberty, is undoubtedly incorrect.


    Tim-
    What are you trying to argue here? The Marriage License is a government issued and recognized contract, and the individual has right to contract.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    In terms of gay marriage, there are logical arguments from both sides.
    Not really. "I don't like gays" carries no merit.

    With liberals, the arguments stem from short term inconsequence to society,
    No it's more to do with fairness to all, not just some.

    with Conservatives, their arguments stem from long term consequences to society.
    What "long term consequences?"

    Libertarians on the other hand, on the face, care little about consequences in favor of an all or nothing path to unbridled freedom Both liberal and conservative views are potentially correct, however, a libertarian no holds barred approach to freedom, and liberty, is undoubtedly incorrect.


    Tim-
    Nothing wrong with freedom ... fascist.
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Unfortunately, SCOTUS is a very partisan collection. Despite this, in a case as obvious as DOMA, the result is obvious. DOMA is a law that equates to slavery or nearly so. Defining a second class citizenship. I am fairly certain that Kennedy, Alioto and Roberts will side with liberals, although for different reasons.


    (((OPINION ALERT))

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Unfortunately, SCOTUS is a very partisan collection.
    In particular, I fear this dynamic is destroying the Republic.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Oh, it is quite terrible that it should be this way. We needed to have a completely non-partisan SCOTUS and we definitely got the opposite. Regrettably, this can not be fixed and we must suffer from the results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In particular, I fear this dynamic is destroying the Republic.

  10. #70
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What are you trying to argue here? The Marriage License is a government issued and recognized contract, and the individual has right to contract.
    Oh gawd not this again?? Show me ANY state issued marriage license and where it says on the license that it is a contract. ANY will do.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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