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Thread: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    How does DOMA get government OUT of marriage? It furthers government control over marriage.
    What? I was saying that once we get rid of DOMA we can start to work towards getting government out of marriage completely.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, it doesn't. Every last protection lined out in the constitution is violated right this very moment. Second, liberty is taken by the government everyday and it has been since government was created with only a few spaces in time when it wasn't. Hell, the entirely of this subject is about lost liberty and no I'm not talking about gays not being allowed to marry either.
    Why aren't you talking about gays lost liberty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Liberals on this issue alone are enormous hypocrites denying the right to marry for all sorts of people. They just make one more exception than the people you are talking about. Not really that much to cheer about honestly.

    As for what I endorse, that would be the removal of government from marriage completely.
    What do you mean they make one more exception? Are you going to make some stupid argument about your right to marry a tree?

    If you support what you claim then you should welcome the courts ruling here as DOMA is an impediment to your goal. But, I think you are a fake libertarian. If the government is removed from marriage, i.e., no longer permitted to restrict our right to enter a marriage contract, then homosexual marriage would be permitted and the contracts honored.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What? I was saying that once we get rid of DOMA we can start to work towards getting government out of marriage completely.
    If that is what you wanted then I don't see how you would be so hostile towards the "liberal" position on this issue. It appears to me you are perverting that argument and misunderstand its meaning. But perhaps I am wrong.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    Why aren't you talking about gays lost liberty?
    Because its the topic?

    What do you mean they make one more exception? Are you going to make some stupid argument about your right to marry a tree?
    No, I'm making the supposedly stupid argument that you should be able to marry whoever you want as long as they consent. I don't see how that is stupid, but fine call it what you want. I frankly don't see anything stupid about that.

    If you support what you claim then you should welcome the courts ruling here as DOMA is an impediment to your goal. But, I think you are a fake libertarian.
    Actually I support the ruling. When exactly did I say otherwise?

    If the government is removed from marriage, i.e., no longer permitted to restrict our right to enter a marriage contract, then homosexual marriage would be permitted and the contracts honored.
    I know, that is the point. Dude, what the hell?

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    If that is what you wanted then I don't see how you would be so hostile towards the "liberal" position on this issue. It appears to me you are perverting that argument and misunderstand its meaning. But perhaps I am wrong.
    The liberal position is not taking government out of marriage and that is what I support. While its great they support gays marrying they are not really going about it in a way I approve of.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I know, that is the point. Dude, what the hell?
    Well, if that is your point then I misunderstood.

    Liberals on this issue alone are enormous hypocrites denying the right to marry for all sorts of people. They just make one more exception than the people you are talking about. Not really that much to cheer about honestly.
    But can you explain this then? How are they hypocrites? What exception do they make? Why wouldn't you cheer this ruling?

    The "hell" is that you are not making much sense.
    Last edited by BayToBay; 10-18-12 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The liberal position is not taking government out of marriage and that is what I support. While its great they support gays marrying they are not really going about it in a way I approve of.
    The liberals are attempting to remove government barriers to marriage via prejudicial licensing laws. That's what the argument you pretend to support is about. It's not about allowing the States, the Federal government and employers to ignore your right to contract.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    Well, if that is your point then I misunderstood.

    Obviously.

    But can you explain this then? How are they hypocrites? What exception do they make? Why would you cheer this ruling?

    The "hell" is that you are not making much sense.
    What I said makes perfect sense. Liberals have been for a few years now pretending to be against restricting people from marriage and even going so far as saying not allowing it is violation of your rights. The problem is that is just dishonest gibberish. They are not for people that want to marry to having the right to marry. They are simply for one more group of people having the right while keeping everyone else that is currently restricted in the exact same place they are in now. They even try to defend this by saying that so and so group that they are against marrying is different for so and so reason, but the fact is that not important. They said we all have a right to marry who we want and its a violation of our rights if the government won't allow it. If it is violation of your rights, its a violation of your rights for EVERYONE, not just one more group that they decided to pick up.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-18-12 at 11:52 PM.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    The liberals are attempting to remove government barriers to marriage via prejudicial licensing laws. That's what the argument you pretend to support is about. It's not about allowing the States, the Federal government and employers to ignore your right to contract.
    No, they support benefits provided by government to be available to people that marry and giving that ability to only one more group. I do not support benefits provided by the state, I do not support a contract with the state in marriage, and I do not support only extending it to one more group. My stance and the liberal stance is not all that similar.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, they support benefits provided by government to be available to people that marry and giving that ability to only one more group. I do not support benefits provided by the state, I do not support a contract with the state, and I do not support only extending it to one more group.

    What was the basis of the decision in this particular instance?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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