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Thread: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

  1. #91
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well thanks for the reading suggestions, however I fear I have better things to be doing. Like thinking for myself.

    I already told you I'm NOT here to debate anyone. I'm merely here to profess any objections I might have about a particular comment or two. I've already done the debating part ad nausium, and there's really nothing to learn from the other sides point of view. I cannot possibly entertain the idea of presenting my views as complex as they are, as every little flare up on this topic appears on DP. Can you imagine? It's not something that can be summarized in a paragraph or two, and even if it could, the resulting oppositions questions and critique would require more vested time to clarify. What results is a link war that says my study is more credible than your study, but all the while both sides missing the point - that none of the studies meets the burden of proof required to win the debate. So where are we left? Nowhere really, and I have come to the point that when bored I'll enter a thread like this; spout off a few one liners, or maybe a parapgraph about my views on the subject, joust a bit, and then go back to my normal way of life.

    Topics (like this) are perfect for debate forums in some ways because there isn't a correct answer. The subjectivity of the material makes it perfect for philosophical forums, and or religious forums, but where facts and truth are concerned, very little is solved by spending days going back and forth in the hope that perhaps you'll find a way to articulate your point of view better, or more consice as to change anyones opinion, or vice versa.. It's a futile endeavour..


    Tim-
    There is no study you can offer that changes the facts of these cases. The state has no valid interest in supporting a distinction in the rights of one person over another here and therefore cannot deny them equal protection of the laws.

    You are arguing for totally partisan judges or simply allowing the majority to do whatever it choose to minorities and individuals. That is a bad idea and not very conservative, considering the fact that it flies in the face of hundreds of years of common law and our 200 plus years as a nation. If judges were as partisan as you seem to want them to be, the lower courts would have no framework for deciding cases or protecting any of our rights.

  2. #92
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I'll tell you what. You seem like a bright fellow, I'll entertain your questions but it will have to wait until later this evening, however I'm not sure what you wish to focus on? Is it my views on gay marriage and they could potentially affect our society in the long run, or is it my ideas on how to recapture, or maybe reinvent my idea of the most ideal society? Or would you prefer that I pick on libertarians for the rest of our exchange? I can do either or, but in the interest of time and effort, I'd prefer you focus on my opposition consisting of one topic at a time? Fair? So, which one do take priority with?


    Tim-
    You begged for attention, got it and then do little but complain.

    I already asked you to focus on the case at hand or the issue of gay marriage. But your argument needs to be well thought out if you wish to challenge the legal opinions. These cases can't just be decided on a whim. The courts should absolutely NOT be attempting to give legal opinions in the hope of shaping the long term direction of society. That sort of action is destructive to the judiciary and our carefully crafted form of government.

  3. #93
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Ya know, call me silly, but I think you take issue with my challenging libertarian purism? Someone as well-read as yourself can't possibly like it when someone so clearly deficient on the subject matter as I, scoffs at something so dear to you that it approaches insulting. Especially since you've taken 20 years to adopt your philosophy, so let me ask you. Is this what you wish to discuss later this evening?


    Tim-
    You are now claiming to be a libertarian?!? Huh?

    Officer BayToBay takes notes, so let's go back and check them.

    Gee I wonder what the pro gay police would say to my views on the topic.. LOL
    Quit squirming. You asked for the attention. If you did not want it or have decided you are not up to it then move along. It does not matter to me.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    The fine print...

    As a group still subject to social stigma, many of those who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender may not be forthcoming about this identity when asked about it in a survey. Therefore, it's likely that some Americans in what is commonly referred to as "the closet" would not be included in the estimates derived from the Gallup interviews. Thus, the 3.4% estimate can best be represented as adult Americans who publicly identify themselves as part of the LGBT community when asked in a survey context.

    Translation: We know our result is way too low, but we headlined it anyway.

  5. #95
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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    It is unconstitutional because it prevents a state from defining marriage however it wants to, which is constitutional.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What are you trying to argue here? The Marriage License is a government issued and recognized contract...
    Sixty-five posts before it was mentioned that marriage is a CIVIL institution. Some of these complaints here are the equivalent of demanding that government keep its hands off Medicare.

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    See^^^ This is why I shouldn't have wasted my time. My answer is correct and yours is not.
    Your answer is a sham of semantics. A marriage license is a document issued by a state anointed official indicating qualification for entering into a contract of marriage. A marriage certificate is a document issued by a state anointed official indicating that such a contract has indeed been entered into.

    Steve-

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    And that might be true, we'll see.
    It's unequivocally false. The state does not have rights, but powers, and the Tenth Amendment doesn't confer any power upon the federal government at all.

    Edwin-

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Truth is that, now we have no fault in all 50 states, so the duties, responsibilities and obligations condition precedent are now mostly anything but, but I digress.
    No, you trip stumble, and fall. The terms and conditions for no fault divorce are set out by the state and a meeting of those terms and condtions must be established to the satisfaction of a state-established authority empowered to grant the divorce. No-fault is all state, all the time.

    Roger-

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    Re: New York appeals court strikes down Defense of Marriage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    BaytoBay... I agree with Henrin on pretty much nothing, but he is about as libertarian as they come... and a consistent one at that.
    Thanks Captain.

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